Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 4312

quote:

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Originally posted by polecat
. Every non-walker owner wants to jump on those tri-colored dogs..... but man they just keep winning.... is there something I'm missing????

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: WIGGINS, MS
Posts: 47

quote:

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Originally posted by 1939
I remember in the late 60's or early 70's a person had a dual grand champ. male walker for some reason he single reg. it english. He had to start all over for some reason and made it a dual grand champ. again. Often wondered why he had to start over for grand nite ch. I could see why show ch. again as different standards for different breeds.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3970

Last Year, Tyrone Spencer, the owner of Grand Nite Champion Billy Bo Diddly (English Coonhoune) Bred to a Walker Gyp.
Bo Diddly has been on the top ten producers list several times.
I asked Tyrone why he chose a Walker hound.
His answer was simple, he figured the two hounds were a good cross, and the pups should make Coondogs.

I would still rather have a Poorly bred Coondog, than a Highly bred Biscuit Eater.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

This is what the English breed is all about. I love that they would make a cross like this.

I hunt English. Why? Because you can breed coondogs without regard to color. I can breed an English female to English, Walker, or Bluetick, and get dogs that meet the English standard. I may have to single-register them, but so what. If a dog can't run and tree a coon by itself, it doesn't deserve papers anyway!!!

Remember, Walkers and Blueticks were originally English. They were separated by color. I could care less about breeding for color. I'd prefer breeding for coondogs!

COONDOGS are more important than breed or color!!! I hunt English, but I don't hunt Redtick!!! THe last Redtick I hunted, and kept, was 1/2 Walker, 1/4 Redbone, 1/4 English. I single-registered him and made him Gr. Nite Ch. ( A true English dog).

TO ME, THE ENGLISH BREED IS ABOUT BREEDING FOR ABILITY, NOT ABOUT BREEDING FOR COLOR!!!

When I see someone talking about their dogs throwing all Redticks, I'm turned off!!! I want Coondogs, not redticks, blueticks, walkers, etc. COONDOGS, regardless of color!!! I've never seen an off-colored or ugly COONDOG (regardless of their looks or color). COONDOGS ARE BEAUTIFUL (regardless of color)!!!

Color is not real important!! if you're worried about color, hunt them in the dark!

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Vernon, Alabama
Posts: 2382

quote:

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Originally posted by neal-williams
One walker dog was done this way and his name was???????????????????? I think a little dog named houses lipper !

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: CAMPBELLSVILLE KY
Posts: 1428

quote:

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Originally posted by neal-williams
One walker dog was done this way and his name was???????????????????? I think a little dog named houses lipper !

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

As far as I know, Hardtime Speck was the only dog to make GRNTCH in both breeds. He made it as a walker, and the walker guys wouldnt breed to him because he was kinda ticked up. He single registered as an English, made GRNTCH agian. Not to mention a world ch title, and one of the strongest reproducers ever. I always figured the walker guys missed the boat on that one.


Heres a few more that were single registered, or had yellow papers:

GRNTCH Boyds Little Joe ( born under a porch in Kentucky)

GRNTCH Beshears Blue Boy II ( his pups could through PR dogs)

Bad Lands Pedro ( sire was a littermate to Lipper)

NTCHCH HAMILTONS BLUE BOY TEN

DUEL GRAND CLEAR CREEK CADALLIC JACK
DUEL GRAND CLEAR CREEK JAMMIN JIM

DUEL GRAND TIMBERSTAR BUCK
DUEL GRAND BLUE BOY RED

DUEL GRAND BLUE MAGIC GOLD

GRNTCH KELLERS MIKE (parents were single reg)
GRNTCH KELLERS QUEEN ( Mikes daughter out of a littermate brother/sister cross)

GRNTCH Pennys Kentucky Kojac

Theres a bunch more, thats just off the top of my head.

The 3 strongest sires probly in the history of the English breed sired pups with yellow papers:


Junior (blue boy II)
Speck
Boyds Little Joe

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: indiana
Posts: 1119

You need to take a look at what all coondogs came from. That would be english. This among other things is why I hunt english. Improve the breed no matter what it takes. Speck has made a lasting impression on the english breed and there are many others as well. Call them what you want but I call them english.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 81

Someone told me once that the Hardtime breeding went back to Dohoneys Boone dog. Anybody know?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 308

dohoney's line of dogs way way back,went back to joe nations goldie dog,which i'm pretty sure was only half english,or just single registered english.

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Park Rapids, MN
Posts: 246

i think it's funny how people think if an english dog is bred to a walker dog, somehow the resulting offspring is neither english or walker. if i'm not mistaken, english dogs and walker dogs were the exact same thing until the walker guys went off and started thier own breed. hmmm.....

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 130

Boy, TJ I wish you could have went hunting with ol Lucy (Hooch's mom). You would have liked her. She made ol Annie look bad a few times and there wasnt nothing gonna run her off no tree. When Randy moved back to Oklahoma he took her there and I am not sure what happened to her after that. She was like nine then.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 59

quote:

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Originally posted by polecat
isn't he out of Cutter??? that means the man with the female was the one doing the breeding... so he must have saw something in "Black and White" so to speak........ IMO... he couldn't have picked a better stud to do it with. Every non-walker owner wants to jump on those tri-colored dogs..... but man they just keep winning.... is there something I'm missing????

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Last edited by Brock Wilson on 03-19-2008 at 01:47 AM

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

When you cut them loose, the papers don't matter. Ability does. Breed for ability!!! I hunt English because that allows the best of 3 different breeds. If they have to be single-registered, so what!! Registration papers don't put coon up the bush, COON DOGS DO!!!

If it does the job right, I'd hunt a pink polk-a-dotted dog. It's all about performance for me.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

Wasn't taking anything from the COON DOGs was just wondering why he was a English Performance sire when he is half walker and half english.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

A piece of the Walker line that was Not Related at All to the "Color Only" Division of the English Breed Line ..

Was Mr. Baker than Nance Lines which were Crosses of Northern Indiana Bloodhound Crossed CoonHounds and the Southern Indiana Fox Hounds "Virginia Fox Hound" ..

Then these Hounds were Crossed on the "Color devided" Early English Coonhound"

Ref. "How they Started" by the National Treeing Walker Ass'n pg. 52. April 1958 Full Cry..

Genitics are Very funny .. Theirs No Garantee to a 50% X 50% even Cross.. Its only a guide line ..

A pup does recieve 50% from each parent But if Each Parent have a Common "Key" (it takes two Common Keys to open A Past Door to Old Genitics) But not all the pups will Recieve the old Genitics, May be only one in a litter of 12 pups..

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Pana, Illinois
Posts: 154

With what Majestic Tree said... sounds like this hound got his traits from "Cutter"..... all coon dog with a coon dog pedigree.
if you want to win it's clear.... as "Black and white"..... and a little tan mixed in of course.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: OKLAHOMA
Posts: 373

THE DOG IN QUESTION IS THE HOOCH DOG THAT IS HERE IN OK OF BILL CROWS....YES HE IS SIRED BY CUTTER AND IS OUT OF A ENGLISH FEMALE..HE IS REGISTERED ENGLISH AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO BREED AN ENGLISH FEMALE TO HAVE UKC REGISTERED PUPS..HE WAS SINGLE REGISTERED AND IS ALL COOOOONDOG....HE WILL BE A BIG ASSETT TO THE ENGLISH BREED..

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I have no problem with crossbreeds, especially if the offspring can be fit a breed standard and all the registration is legit,
I have 1 question, I was under the impression that for single registration I thought the pedigree had to be Unknown or at least 50% unknown, I am I mistaken?

So lets say you take a Walker or any other breed and breed it to a grade dog of the same breed, can those be single registered as long as the meet the standard?
What about a dog with a known pedigree but not UKC registered (let say just PKC or AKC registered) can that dog's offspring be registered with UKC?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1586

quote:

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Originally posted by bearhunter
So whats your point? They made a walker/english cross and single reg. this dog english.He meets english breed standard,and appearently trees coon.They didnt try to hide anything about the dogs pedigree.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

What if my female walker came in and i bred her to a black and tan what would they be reg. as I know cross bred but you guys say hooch is english what would my pups be reg????

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Scranton, AR
Posts: 840

Hooch is single registered English, if you bred your walker gyp the pups would be crossbred, but if any of them met the breed requirements, you could single register them English or Walker same as they did with Hooch. As far as the English breed and UKC and Hooch is concerned he is and will always be an English dog, because the English breed association said he could be. So anyone who breeds their English females will have English puppies.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 4312

quote:

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Originally posted by brogy
I have no problem with crossbreeds, especially if the offspring can be fit a breed standard and all the registration is legit,
I have 1 question, I was under the impression that for single registration I thought the pedigree had to be Unknown or at least 50% unknown, I am I mistaken?

So lets say you take a Walker or any other breed and breed it to a grade dog of the same breed, can those be single registered as long as the meet the standard?
What about a dog with a known pedigree but not UKC registered (let say just PKC or AKC registered) can that dog's offspring be registered with UKC?

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Westville Okla.
Posts: 38

Just look at how far that cross breed hound has made it today top 5 reproducer if more people would just bred their females to him based on what he produces in stead of not for how he is reg. theirs know telling how high he would be right now sounds like some of them boys a few years ago shouldnt have missed the boat on this hound im proud to say i own two very fine Hooch dogs.............Joseph Cooper

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Altoona Alabama
Posts: 632

Are 1/2 breeds,and should be listed as 1/2 breeds.And should not be bred back into the breed they are single registered in.Why seperate the breeds if you're gonna crossbreed everything? No need for papers if the dogs are mixed.Crossbreeds bred to whatever produce crossbreeds.

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