Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

billie jo

".......all your getting is the same materials that made the cloned hound..."

That's my point , you know get the tools to make a coondog. Not just " hoping " that a cross works.


" I HAD to do the reading...they call me DOC. Not a vet neither.. I work w/ people...

an I do own some great hounds...note my sig. "

I don't know you and I've never met you and I'm not saying your this way , BUT , I will tell you what I've seen with my own eyes.....

My " Doctor " is a female MD. I have a back problem and all she wants to do is give me pills. No X-rays , no MRI , no digging to find out what's causing it. I'm changing doctors. There are bad doctors ( male and female ) as well as good ones.
And , last year I hunted with a womans NtCh dog that in 33 trees , I only seen the coon 3 times. And she believed she had a " great hound ".
So , you telling me your a " Doc " and your signature don't really mean much to me. I commend you for your schooling and such , but that don't mean you know everything. ( not trying to be rude )
And there are alot of men out there that think the same thing so don't think I'm picking on you because your a woman. LOL
I take whatever anybody says with a grain of salt. When you've been in the hound game as long as I have , you have to. LOL

Now , with that being said , I believe cloning " could " be a good thing. I'd try a cloned hound if it was cloned from what " I " call a coondog. I think it would save me alot of time and money. It would keep me from running around to all these people with " great dogs " only to find out they're not what I want. Or keep me from buying a pup ( from a dog I liked ) , raise it for 2 years and find out that's not it either.
Personally , I think it would be the best breeding program one could have. Instead of hoping to reproduce good dogs , you could just about count on it ! Because , in case you didn't know it , just because a dog is a good dog , doesn't mean he'll be a good reproducer.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: midwest nebraska
Posts: 802

I'm puttinhg my hands over my face while I read that....
In a ways " incase I'm reading it wrong" your being a hip-a-crit.




Who cares ...this thread is just to get everybodys thoughts an opionions...


Good luck to ya with that cloned hound... Let me know how it turns out...l

__________________
NITE STALKER KENNEL
Home of....
DUAL CH'PR' IRON BLACK RAPTOR...A.K.A. The Massive Black.
"PR"Strictly Confidential

Last edited by billie jo on 01-12-2007 at 05:46 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

---

Originally posted by blueticking: it
why would you ever go backwards if a dog
couldnt produce something= or better
than himself

---

__________________
740-255-3087
william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by billie jo
I'm puttinhg my hands over my face while I read that....
In a ways " incase I'm reading it wrong" your being a hip-a-crit.

---

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Dogs
you can't upgrade. you only get what you had!!!

---

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Crystal Michigan
Posts: 4483

quote:

---

Originally posted by C. Beyer
I second this. Well said Joe.
Couldnt agree more

---

__________________
Rip Acorn Creek Black Swamp Jester

In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: midwest nebraska
Posts: 802

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackbob42
[B]Imagine that ......
How am I being a hypocrite?[QUOTE]

I was typing it,as how I would say it...ever heard of that???
Plus since you had to look in a dictionary or an Encyclopedia to see how to spell it..you would have seen that...that is the fist way hypocrite is spelled... Just like I said it...

__________________
NITE STALKER KENNEL
Home of....
DUAL CH'PR' IRON BLACK RAPTOR...A.K.A. The Massive Black.
"PR"Strictly Confidential

Last edited by billie jo on 01-12-2007 at 10:01 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: wakeman, ohio
Posts: 2294

quote:

---

Originally posted by billie jo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackbob42
[B]Imagine that ......
A doctor that can't spell hypocrite ! LOL

How am I being a hypocrite?[QUOTE]

I was typing it,as how I would say it...ever heard of that???
Plus since you had to look in a dictionary or an Encyclopedia to see how to spell it..you would have seen that...that is the fist way hypocrite is spelled... Just like I said it...

---

__________________

Proud Owner of
Indian River Kennels
Home of....

The Blueticks...
CH Finchams Indian River Smoke
CH Finchams Ind Riv Wind Dancer
CH Indian River Smokin Rowdy Too
PR' Finchams Indian River WildRose
The Walker...
PR' Fincham's Indian River Scrappy Doo (watch out for this pup and his boy!)

Smoke is now at stud...
(440) 839-2525
(419) 577-5365
www.freewebs.com/finchamsindianriverkennels/

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Martinsville, Virginia
Posts: 203

quote:

---

Originally posted by redneck_girl



IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, IF GOD WOULD HAVE WANTED ME TO BE TWINS....HE'D HAVE TAPPED DADDY ON THE BACK AND SAID ~ "DOUBLE STUFF IT SON, WE NEED TWO"~

---

__________________
The dogs might not be broke
but this coonhunter sure is.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: wakeman, ohio
Posts: 2294

quote:

---

Originally posted by JCGordon
HAHAAHAHA I don't think the world could've held two of ya!!!

LOL!!!j/k

---

__________________

Proud Owner of
Indian River Kennels
Home of....

The Blueticks...
CH Finchams Indian River Smoke
CH Finchams Ind Riv Wind Dancer
CH Indian River Smokin Rowdy Too
PR' Finchams Indian River WildRose
The Walker...
PR' Fincham's Indian River Scrappy Doo (watch out for this pup and his boy!)

Smoke is now at stud...
(440) 839-2525
(419) 577-5365
www.freewebs.com/finchamsindianriverkennels/

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

[i]

I was typing it,as how I would say it...ever heard of that???
Plus since you had to look in a dictionary or an Encyclopedia to see how to spell it..you would have seen that...that is the fist way hypocrite is spelled... Just like I said it... [/B]

---

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

still just my thoughts if there is 5000 dogs sired
by lipper and 2500 are females they had 8 pups
a litter thats 25,000 pups and grandpups
out of lipper if you cant find 1 dog to suit you
then you need to hunt a differnt blood line

Last edited by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-12-2007 at 10:33 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: south carolina
Posts: 166

quote:

---

Originally posted by billie jo
I hope you are not saying anything towards me, are ya...

---

__________________
Tim M

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 535

i wouldn't mind trying a cloned hound. I wouldn't mind having one or two that are now gone back.

__________________
Jordan Hall
(715)297-4485
Wausau, Wi

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

hunted with were absolute naturals. Some even ran and treed the first night in the woods with other dogs. That is genetics. I always made crosses on dogs that were genetically sound. I never bred to a man made dog. I've seen some that were nice hounds don't get me wrong. But the ones that reproduced their likeness were hounds that natually ran and treed with very little hauling around and shocking collars and whippings.

I know of a couple I would dig up tonight if I knew they could be cloned!!!! Both were just old night champions made the hard way when there was only 1 hunt within driving distance every two or three months. There isn't a barn big enough to cover them with the hides these two dogs treed and killed.

If one of you finds out who is doing the cloning, call me and I'll bring my shovel!!!hahahaha
This is sure interesting hen talk!!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
Posts: 845

C. Beyer mentioned what has been done with corn to increase production, but at what price. Nearly one hundred percent of the corn grown in th U.S. is filled with mytotoxins. The aflotoxin in diamond dog food is a glaring example of what can go wrong. Now the question I ask is were these toxins brought about by genetic manipulation or were they there all along? And what happens to a dogs immune system when we take out the genetic variables by cloning for several generations?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: S.E.Minn.
Posts: 320

quote:

---

Originally posted by bandithunter
C. Beyer mentioned what has been done with corn to increase production, but at what price. Nearly one hundred percent of the corn grown in th U.S. is filled with mytotoxins. The aflotoxin in diamond dog food is a glaring example of what can go wrong. Now the question I ask is were these toxins brought about by genetic manipulation or were they there all along? And what happens to a dogs immune system when we take out the genetic variables by cloning for several generations?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
Posts: 845

Iguess what I'm wondering is if altering a plants genetic makeup alters its ability to fight off fungus [which is what toxins in corn consist of] and if the same thing will happen in dogs. Do they become vulnerable to disease by losing their genetic diversity?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 412

I'll take a RamboII, Scout, Hawk and droop jr. Would be fun to compare them from night to night.

__________________
River Bottom Blue Kennel.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

Cloning is just one aspect of modern science.

Maybe some on here don't believe in scientific advances, but they are sure making use of them. I didn't view this post via Pony Express. Nope! People are using scientific advances to communicate.

Some believe that we are messing with the "natural order" of things. I happen to believe that intelligence and ingenuity are a part of the natural order.

Come Monday, I'm going back to work. I won't be saddling up a horse, I'll use a scientific advancement, a CAR!!! Before that, I'll stay warm at night, because I have a FURNACE. It's still dark when I get up, so I'll flip a switch and turn on the LIGHTS after my electric ALARM CLOCK wakes me up. Might even grab something out of the FRIDGE. I'll take a shower (have INDOOR PLUMBING), and get dressed in clothes that I didn't weave or make myself (they were made with a MACHINE).

Wow, I'm pretty dependent on scientific advances that have been made over the years. Obviously, anybody that sees this is also dependent on scientific advances that have been made in the past.

It would be pretty stupid of me to oppose science, being as I depend on it so much.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Crystal Michigan
Posts: 4483

quote:

---

Originally posted by bandithunter
C. Beyer mentioned what has been done with corn to increase production, but at what price. Nearly one hundred percent of the corn grown in th U.S. is filled with mytotoxins. The aflotoxin in diamond dog food is a glaring example of what can go wrong. Now the question I ask is were these toxins brought about by genetic manipulation or were they there all along? And what happens to a dogs immune system when we take out the genetic variables by cloning for several generations?

---

__________________
Rip Acorn Creek Black Swamp Jester

In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Holden, MO
Posts: 408

I don't know. Cloneing kind of seams like a Lazy way out to me. (As far as great hounds). Yeah there are some dogs I think back and say. Man if I just had some of that. But, Natural order of things keeps us from doing so. Working the dogs, trying to make them in likeness of the greats, success and failiers. Thats kind of what its about. "Not" knowing what the dogs going to do.
Personal I don't care for all of our "Progress'". We've came to a point I think we need to step back and look. Call me old fassion, hard headed whatever but our science world needs to take a break for the next century or so.I don't like cloneing, for dogs, hogs, or anything. If I'm dieing of cancer then bygoly I'm ment to die from cancer, I don't want them dragging it on and making me live another 20 years. It's not right and God knows, our population is "Way" out of control as it is.

__________________
Dennis "Marty" and Heidi West
Holden Missouri
(816)850-3987 or (816)785-1740
westshounds@yahoo.com
GRCH GRWRCH'PR' White Reuben Timber Thrasher
-------------------------
GRCH'PR' Red Raven Timber Thrasher
-------------------------
GCH'PR' Ladys' Amazing Grace
(E-Days '07 Grand Female,
Autum Oaks Grand English Female 07)
-------------------------
WCH GRCH'PR' Aspin Rain Timber Thrasher(2-1st place wins)
-------------------------
CH'PR' Heidi's Hillbilly Dancin Amber(E-Days '06 BFOS)
-------------------------
CH'PR'Ester's not in Kansas Anymore(E-Days '07 BFOS
______________________________________________
Grch GrNtch'Pr'Howard Co Set'em Up Tree SHAKER: ______________________________________________
Ch GrNiteCh'Pr'Herd's Barber Creek ACE
'04 UKC English World Champion and 16th Place Over All
______________________________________________

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 259

Cloning, DNA, Genetics too much for my weak mind. I believe a dog can be trained to do great things by the right person but only if the dog has great things to begin with. The desire to hunt, track with speed, tree and stay treed with a loud mouth are traits handed down form ancestors, at least that’s how I see it. You can’t expect to get great hounds from sorry bloodlines no matter how good a trainer you may be. To think that all great hounds are the product of training and advertising is simply not true. House’s Lipper, Finley River Chief and Nocturnal Nailor were not great because a super trainer trained them or because they won a bunch of hunts with a slick handler. They were great because they had the ability to pass on what was given to them by their ancestors before them and when mated with females that had ancestors with similar abilities you ended up with a nice pup. Lipper was not the only good dog that Joe House ever owned. He was the product of a breeding program that spanned many years and you can bet that Joe House had his share of mediocre and worthless dogs too. If greatness could be achieved by training, any ole dog would do. What I’m saying is you have to have something to start with or you’ll end up with nothing. Who thinks they can come up with a great pup that can reproduce great pups by breeding two dogs that are from a line of dogs that were mean, weak mouthed, tree leaving, track waddling idiots? You won’t have a great dog no matter who trains it. Truly great dogs are those that can pass on great things from great ancestors. We have more good hounds today than ever before in the history of coon hunting and great hounds will surface in the future. Do we need to clone dogs? I think not. JMO

__________________
Yadkin River Ti'll I Die

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

In pro sports occasionally you see two brothers that are exceptional athletes or even more rare a father and son that were exceptional pro athletes. But much more often than not two people(even the best athletes in history) produce just average, ordinary offspring(maybe good athletes at the high school level). I believe that these truely exceptional athletes are freaks of nature. They have a gift given by God and no one else. Did you ever notice how many of the phenominal athletes have children with some type of problem? I don't know a single person that has a child with autism(sp?) but have read about several exceptional pro athletes with children effected by this. This is just an example of course. Maybe these truely great hounds are just that also................freaks of nature and unable to produce their likness. Not saying they don't produce good solid hounds just not as good as they were themselves. JMO

__________________
Al Tarantella

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:

---

Originally posted by bandithunter
C. Beyer mentioned what has been done with corn to increase production, but at what price. Nearly one hundred percent of the corn grown in th U.S. is filled with mytotoxins. The aflotoxin in diamond dog food is a glaring example of what can go wrong. Now the question I ask is were these toxins brought about by genetic manipulation or were they there all along? And what happens to a dogs immune system when we take out the genetic variables by cloning for several generations?

---

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged