Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

quote:

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Originally posted by gfults
I believe it is partly inherited. But i also believe it is because of intelligence. I know of 3 particular dogs who are silent on track. One is the mother of the other 2. All 3 dogs are almost identical in the way they hunt the way they tree and even their mouth. So part of it is inheritence, but all 3 dogs are also very smart, so yes, it is also part intelligence too. Ive never seen a dog that gave a whole bunch of mouth on track that i thought was very smart, and believe me ive hunted tons of em.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Hawkeye State
Posts: 1317

How do you tell how good of a track dog you have if he is tight on the ground? A question I have pondering for a while.....

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Dwight, IL
Posts: 143

It is very easy to judge a silent dog on track. Hunt them a lot and you will see what I am going to attempt to write down here. You turn your dog loose. It trees and it is up a small tree and the coon is at the top of the tree. No track hardly at all most likely and your dog bush wacked the coon. Can't really tell how the dog can run a track from this. Now, turn it loose another time and it strikes maybe once, maybe not, but you see it raise its head and it flies through the timber like a nothing you have seen before and gets treed up a big old tree and has a big boar coon. You are starting to think this dog is a pretty good dog, but still not sure about the track speed or anything. Now, you hunt your still or stiller mouth dog that don't open hardly ever with a really good hound or whatever that opens just right on track and moves a track the way it supposed to be done. Your dog may give a little mouth with this dog for some reason unknown for sure by me, but they may actually give a little tongue here and there. Now you hunt this still mouthed dog with this really good track driving dog a lot and you see this still mouth dog time after time beating this dog to the tree a lot, maybe not always, but quite a bit. Now you are sure you have a very fast, very still mouth dog and you know it for sure even though you was suspecting cause they never tree on a den and they never slick tree or miss. This is when you are happy. Without the other dog's help in judging, you still can kind of tell cause your dog is always and I mean always treeing you coon on the outside and is doing it in a way that you like and you have hunted your whole life in your area and you have a feel for what you and your dog is or isn't doing in the woods.

My point is that when a man hunts a whole hell of a lot he starts to get a feel for what is going on with certain dogs and he realizes this dog has it and this worthless sumbitch needs shot and tossed in the dang river. You guys that hunt a whole lot know what I am talking about cause you pay attention and you learn what is going on with everybody's dog that you go to the woods with very quickly.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 587

quote:

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Originally posted by justpiddlin76
It is very easy to judge a silent dog on track. Hunt them a lot and you will see what I am going to attempt to write down here. You turn your dog loose. It trees and it is up a small tree and the coon is at the top of the tree. No track hardly at all most likely and your dog bush wacked the coon. Can't really tell how the dog can run a track from this. Now, turn it loose another time and it strikes maybe once, maybe not, but you see it raise its head and it flies through the timber like a nothing you have seen before and gets treed up a big old tree and has a big boar coon. You are starting to think this dog is a pretty good dog, but still not sure about the track speed or anything. Now, you hunt your still or stiller mouth dog that don't open hardly ever with a really good hound or whatever that opens just right on track and moves a track the way it supposed to be done. Your dog may give a little mouth with this dog for some reason unknown for sure by me, but they may actually give a little tongue here and there. Now you hunt this still mouthed dog with this really good track driving dog a lot and you see this still mouth dog time after time beating this dog to the tree a lot, maybe not always, but quite a bit. Now you are sure you have a very fast, very still mouth dog and you know it for sure even though you was suspecting cause they never tree on a den and they never slick tree or miss. This is when you are happy. Without the other dog's help in judging, you still can kind of tell cause your dog is always and I mean always treeing you coon on the outside and is doing it in a way that you like and you have hunted your whole life in your area and you have a feel for what you and your dog is or isn't doing in the woods.

My point is that when a man hunts a whole hell of a lot he starts to get a feel for what is going on with certain dogs and he realizes this dog has it and this worthless sumbitch needs shot and tossed in the dang river. You guys that hunt a whole lot know what I am talking about cause you pay attention and you learn what is going on with everybody's dog that you go to the woods with very quickly.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Dwight, IL
Posts: 143

When a fella has a good dog, it never matters much what breed they are or if they open much or not cause a good dog is a good dog. I have my opinions and what I like in a dog. The only type of dogs that I really don't like are ones that can't run a track well or that don't move a track well and tree layups a lot. They still can make coon dogs, I just don't like them.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1333

Well,I will say this.

I have started one of the most interesting and civil threads I have seen on hear in quite a while.

The thing I have been wondering is if the brains and tight mouth go hand in hand then it would kind of be a danged if I do danged if I don't situation.

Do I breed for the open mouth trait I want,or do I breed for a smarter dog.I aint sayin' you can't have both,I'm just sayin' that maybe we need to be even more selective than we first thought.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by engman99
Well,I will say this.

I have started one of the most interesting and civil threads I have seen on hear in quite a while.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Dwight, IL
Posts: 143

very well put, I was gonna just say that, but if figured folks would frown upon it, but very well put

it takes some gettin used to and a fella has to learn to trust his quiet dog cause you think they are jackin around a lot, but facts are, it just ain't the case

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by josh
Ill second that.





Easy, They tree coon quickly.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

Open mouth -vrs- Smart, ext.


Engman99,

As someone who starts more than my share of young dogs, I have always preferred to work with a very smart dog over even a very "genetically talented" dog. Usually the two go hand in hand, but if the scale is to tip in one direction I want it to be towards brains.

I have had dogs that were smarter than they were talented. That is to say there brains made the lions share of there ability. These kind learn to overcome there genes. I have also had dogs who's had all the makings of a great one as far as genetics go, but didn't have the little extra brains to tie it all togather.

My old Racket female was a prime example. She was way smarter than she was talented. She LEARNED to overcome her genetic ability.

Case in point: Set em up Joe

Racket wasn't a fast tree dog. She was an accurate one, but not extremely quick. She was a dog that could be treed on her locate though.

Over time and a few hunts, I noticed once in a while she threw a strange locate out there. Sometimes even treed a little. Never would stick to it though. As soon as the rest of the pack was locked down, she rolled out and the next time you heard her she was under a coon. The tree she originally located on was slick every time. One time it was a telephone pole.

I won a bunch of casts with her setting the others up on a tree and her getting under a coon alone. She didn't like to take second tree, and she learned 90% of the strange dogs she drew out with would lock down on the first tree that a dog barked on. She never did this with dogs she knew. Only with strange dogs.

That is a prime example of what a little extra brains can do for one. People who hunted with her some always knew by that weird locate that a " set em up Joe" was coming.

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 903

I haven't hunted with a silent or real tight mouth dog that was cold nosed dog.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Shelby Co. IN
Posts: 444

quote:

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Originally posted by larrypoe
I noticed once in a while she threw a strange locate out there. Sometimes even treed a little. Never would stick to it though. As soon as the rest of the pack was locked down, she rolled out

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1333

I would like to hear what some folks have to say about that myself.

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