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JiM
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I don't believe it is scientificlly possible for the "quality of pups" to differ berween live bred and semen bred bitchs useing the same stud.

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10-12-2006 08:00 PM

Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I don't believe it is scientificlly possible for the "quality of pups" to differ berween live bred and semen bred bitchs useing the same stud.

Scientificilly or Not, there are not near the percentage of dogs out of Lipper Semen making NTCH & GRNTCH. Nor, are they winning hunts like they used to. Im not trying to say that their genetic make-up is different, but looks like out of several litters of Lipper semen we would see more than 2 studs. Cade is the only big winner i know of. Im not trying to ruffle feathers. Im just curious as to why they arent in the winner's circle more.

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10-12-2006 09:04 PM

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V. Cannon
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when there isn't 5,000 pups out there to pick a good from it's more noticable when you have too cull out of the existing pups from Lipper, his numbers from the sperm pups is probally a true reflection of all of his pups, just more noticable know.

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10-12-2006 09:19 PM

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Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
when there isn't 5,000 pups out there to pick a good from it's more noticable when you have too cull out of the existing pups from Lipper, his numbers from the sperm pups is probally a true reflection of all of his pups, just more noticable know.

The percentages should hold up though. Lipper was what, a 10-12% reproducer when he was alive. I wonder what the % of Lipper semen is.

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10-12-2006 09:23 PM

V. Cannon
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some of the proven crosses that produced the better pups from Lipper can't be made anymore because the females are dead, it makes you wonder if it was Lipper or was it some of those bitches that produced a few good pups out of the 5300 pups.

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10-12-2006 09:29 PM

josh
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Location: Los Angeles, MN
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
some of the proven crosses that produced the better pups from Lipper can't be made anymore because the females are dead, it makes you wonder if it was Lipper or was it some of those bitches that produced a few good pups out of the 5300 pups.

Dosent make me wonder.

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10-12-2006 09:35 PM

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V. Cannon
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quote:
Originally posted by josh
Dosent make me wonder.

ME EITHER

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10-12-2006 09:37 PM

Russell Boyette
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Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
some of the proven crosses that produced the better pups from Lipper can't be made anymore because the females are dead, it makes you wonder if it was Lipper or was it some of those bitches that produced a few good pups out of the 5300 pups.

Good point. Although, looks like some proven reproducer would be/have been bred to the semen.

I know for a fact though, that Lipper through some nice hounds of bottom feeder females. Looks like he could still do it today.

Or maybe some of the studs out there today reproduce just as good or better than what Lipper reproduced, and thats why they havent shown up. When people started breeding to the semen, i figured Lipper semen pups would dominate again. I figured they would be the truck winners, and AO winners today. Maybe time has passed Lipper genes by?

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10-12-2006 09:42 PM

V. Cannon
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When did Lipper pups ever dominate? How many world hunts did they win?

Lipper pups was known for having a loud mouth and being trashy, before you jump on me I'll tell you that I've owned several and hunted many more, some of these dogs became advertised stud dogs.

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10-12-2006 09:54 PM

Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
When did Lipper pups ever dominate? How many world hunts did they win?

Lipper pups was known for having a loud mouth and being trashy, before you jump on me I'll tell you that I've owned several and hunted many more, some of these dogs became advertised stud dogs.

Lipper's Hardwood Gun won a good bit. Minnesota Bad Sally, Lipper's Stylish Rank...

No world hunts, but neither did the other top reproducers(Jr, Nailor) have pups to win world hunts.

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10-12-2006 09:58 PM

Lee Currens Jr.
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Russell you seem to know a lot about the
lipper line.there was a dog around 88-89
that Don Gostmski last name is butchered
i think the dogs name was lippers mack
how is this line doing and if somebody crosses
one back on lipper semen i would be intrested
prob. the best dog lipper threw

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10-12-2006 09:58 PM

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Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
, before you jump on me I'll tell you that I've owned several and hunted many more, some of these dogs became advertised stud dogs.

Voyc, im not jumping on anyone, I think we're having a pretty good discussion about it. I didnt own Lipper, i dont own a semen pup, and we havent said anything slanderous or distasteful about anyone.

What's to be mad about?

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10-12-2006 10:00 PM

V. Cannon
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was lippers mack out of seven mile sue

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10-12-2006 10:00 PM

V. Cannon
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russell it's hard to mention Lipper without offending somebody and I was apologizing before they started on me.

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10-12-2006 10:02 PM

Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
Russell you seem to know a lot about the
lipper line.there was a dog around 88-89
that Don Gostmski last name is butchered
i think the dogs name was lippers mack
how is this line doing and if somebody crosses
one back on lipper semen i would be intrested
prob. the best dog lipper threw

Doesnt ring any bells. Im sure their are people on here that know. Im no Lipper expert. I didnt hunt with Lipper, and in the grand scheme of things, i have hunted with a miniscule % of Lipper pups. Of course being that were 5000+ of them, anyone would be hard pressed to.

Oh, Voyd, i forgot about Scott's Lipper Joe. He did a good bit of winning here, and also won the Alabama State Hunt

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10-12-2006 10:03 PM

Lee Currens Jr.
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i think so its been a long time he was run over
are something at a early age he was leading
twbfa points dont know if he went on to win it
or not big beautiful black dog

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10-12-2006 10:04 PM

Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
russell it's hard to mention Lipper without offending somebody and I was apologizing before they started on me.

Hell, all dog's have fault's, and the longer they're dead, the less the people remember what they were. Im not glorifying or trashing Lipper. I dont have a dog at my house that doesnt go back to him, but im not fool enough to believe he was/produced perfect dogs.

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10-12-2006 10:05 PM

V. Cannon
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If he was out of GR NT Sue he had several littermates that did some winning, Seven mile wendy won AO, I kept a Gr nt that was a littermate for a while that nealy won the purina race one year.

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10-12-2006 10:08 PM

Lee Currens Jr.
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he was winning about everything around that
time period.i thank the tara 2 dog was out of lipper
to she was the walker role model for breed standards
for 3-4 yrs

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10-12-2006 10:19 PM

josh
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Lipper was what he was, and still is.

If you take away a couple of crosses made on a couple of reproducing females you wont be left with very impressive numbers.

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10-12-2006 10:21 PM

Russell Boyette
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quote:
Originally posted by josh
Lipper was what he was, and still is.

If you take away a couple of crosses made on a couple of reproducing females you wont be left with very impressive numbers.

Which females?

Stylish Queen

and what else?

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10-12-2006 10:23 PM

V. Cannon
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Seven mile sue and stylish dolly helped Lipper get reconition

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10-12-2006 11:00 PM

Lee Currens Jr.
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Re: it takes

quote:
Originally posted by Dan Dogs
less straws if you have it done surgically then artificial breeding and the conception rate is better!!jmo from what my vet has told me.

dad told me when they breed bitches artificial to
rowdy the vet used about a 1/4 of a straw and threw the rest
away

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10-12-2006 11:16 PM

Dan Dogs
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Re: Re: it takes

quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
dad told me when they breed bitches artificial to
rowdy the vet used about a 1/4 of a straw and threw the rest
away

did they get pups? was they useing frozen semen or collecting and breeding on the spot?

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10-12-2006 11:27 PM

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Lee Currens Jr.
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i dont thank rowdy missed but once.
they artf. 4-5 times.i ask him about
3 straw deal he said he didnt have a
clue why you would use that much.
he said they always wasted twiced as much
as was needed

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10-12-2006 11:38 PM

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