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Laura Bell
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3847

quote:
Originally posted by Stumpy
Well neither dog was scratched and they were allowed to finish the hunt. I was under the impression that if they fight they are scratched. But the MOH said that there was circumstances that caused the dogs to fight so he did not scratch them.


Circumstances? lol What Rule can I find that under?

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Old Post 10-02-2006 06:58 PM
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Autumn Clements
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

shouldn't make any difference on wether they were on the same or different lead. If they can tree together they better be able to lead together.


Dogs should have been scratched for fighting.

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Old Post 10-02-2006 08:56 PM
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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Well by the rules the situation was handled incorrectly.

There is no circumstance provision in the SFF rule, and sadly there is no common sense rule in UKC.

If they fight while under the authority of the judge they are scratched, period, end of story. Doesn't matter why, if they are fighting they are supposed to be scratched. It doesn't matter if they got tagled up and their noses were rubbing toghther, if they were fighting they were supposed to be scratched no if's ands or buts.

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Old Post 10-02-2006 09:27 PM
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al jackson
Banned

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: KENTUCKY
Posts: 558

hum

quote:
Originally posted by Hiphop
Why did he leash the other handlers dog ????????

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:14 AM
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al jackson
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: KENTUCKY
Posts: 558

quote:
Originally posted by Hiphop
Which hunter was the judge???????

Who's was the third dog???????????

Something doesnt make sense, I think we need to know "the rest of the story".



your coonhunting wisdom shines through.

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:15 AM
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BOOBOOBRADY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location: CAMPBELLSVILLE KY
Posts: 1428

scratched i don't care about none of the other excuses.


I WOULD LIKE TO HERE ALLENS TAKE ON THIS?

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Come on people drop you're ego and admitt you just got beat, made a bad call, dog made a mistake, what ever.You can't get cheated that much

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:19 AM
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huntingwalkers9
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Asheville north carolina
Posts: 1728

fr

if you get todd kellem on here he will tell you that growling is not a scratchable offense..they have to either have a all out fight or interfere with another dogs ability to hunt

growling at each other on the lead is not interfering with another dogs ability to hunt......just like if the dogs were tied back on the tree and another one starts face barking you cannot scratch him, even though he is showing agression hes not interefering with the dog.

i for one would have been pissed for the guy handleing my dog, if i'm hunting a dog then i want to be there when he gets handled

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:39 AM
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Mutt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 70

I know for a fact that in UKC a dog on the leash is considered the same as a dog treed and the same rules apply. However if the man that handled dogs other than his was not acting under the authority of the judge or have permission from the dogs owner then he was in the wrong. Therefore you would almost have to ignore the fight and use the common sense rule .

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:40 AM
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harper english
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: Blairsville ga
Posts: 602

this right here proves who hunts gutless dogs my dogs dont just clean trees but you better not have a milling back pack dog and expect to get treed with them

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Old Post 10-03-2006 03:22 AM
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Justin Smith
Banned

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
this is where common sense comes in---the judge did the right thing in my opinion

chain two dogs together that are treeing and then pull them back which will pull them straight into one another and see how many of them fuzz up at each other---you might get a suprise



hmmmm

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Old Post 10-03-2006 03:38 AM
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Tightline
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: East Texas = Polk County
Posts: 59

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
WOULD YOU STILL LIKE HIM SCRATCHED IF YOUR DOG WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A 4 LANE HIGHWAY, WITH AN 18 WHEELER BARRELLING DOWN ON IT, OR WOULD THAT BE A DIFFERENT SITUATION?

HANDLED IS HANDLED, NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE OR OUTCOME.

I DONT THINK THAT YOU COULD SCRATCH ANYONE FOR HANDLING YOUR DOG.

IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT ANYWHERE IN THE RULES WHERE I COULD FIND IT.

11. HANDLERS AND JUDGES:

No trees to be climbed or coon to be killed. Where dogs split up Judge will go with handler to the dog that trees first. If a split tree is obvious (Judge’s decision), split tree must be declared. Separate time must be kept on each tree unless all dogs are declared treed. Permission will be given for other handlers to go to their dogs on split tree, otherwise cast must remain together unless time out is called. Split tree cannot be shined until Judge arrives. After five minutes, first dog’s tree may be checked and that dog kept on leash until tree is scored, then he must be turned loose with other dogs that are opening on trail and will receive 25 points credit or discredit as deserved, or next available position. However, if dog(s) are already treed, do not release any dogs. No credit allowed for dog brought to tree. All handlers must stay with Judge at all times unless given permission by Judge to leave. Judge will be first to arrive at tree. WHERE WAS THE JUDGE? IN MY OPINION, IF THIS PERSON THAT HANDLED THE DOGS WAS NOT THE JUDGE, I WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED GETTING SCRATCHED FOR FIGHTING, BECAUSE HAD THAT PERSON NOT HANDLED BOTH DOGS AND PUT THEM BOTH ON THE SAME LEAD, THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE FOUGHT. WAS THEIR ANY AGGRESSION BETWEEN THE TWO UNTIL THIS POINT? HAD THEY FOUGHT ON THE TREE OR ANYWHERE ELSE?



17. GENERAL INFORMATION:

When a dog is declared treed, Judge is not to let anyone go to the tree and start shining in less than five minutes, unless all dogs have been declared treed. This is a courtesy to other handlers and also to see that a dog will hold his tree. If at all possible, be at the tree within five (5) minutes. If handlers are so far from tree that it will take more than five minutes to get to tree, they are to start walking toward tree, but stopping all along to let other handlers see if their dog is treeing. Judge is not to let any handler keep holding him away from tree just to let dog get to tree after five minutes are up. Dog must hold the tree for five minutes, unless all dogs in cast are declared treed. If one dog in cast, or one dog remaining in cast, dog must hold tree for five minutes. Dogs declared treed within hunting time, are eligible for scoring. When hunting time is up, cast can go directly to tree. Dogs at tree must be leashed. IT DOES NOT SAY “MUST BE LEASHED BY THE OWNER/HANDLER, AND IF LEASHED BY ANYONE ELSE THAT HANDLER/SPECTATOR WILL BE SCRATCHED” Judges are not to let hunters call dogs off a trail without counting those points minus. No encouragement or discouragement of any kind to dogs. Dog should not be minused tree points if he comes back a short distance to meet handler if dog goes back in and trees satisfactorily. Judge should be informed of such peculiarities before hunt. No squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dog(s) to be done until all dogs declared struck are at tree and leashed. Individual holding first tree controls shining of tree for first two minutes. Two spectators per handler will be allowed on all casts. Spectators may not shine tree. Handler’s dog(s) will be scratched for rule violations by their spectators.




THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, AND MY INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES, BUT I DONT THINK ANYONE COULD BE SCRATCHED JUST FOR HANDLING SOMEON ELSE'S DOG.




here's were i live

http://www.trapperbill.com
here is were i hunt. in my back yard, i got 12,500 acres i pay to hunt, and im surrounded by 30 thousand acres.

IF I HAD TO HUNT AROUND ANY ROADS OR TRAFFIC ID STAY HOME. I CAN TREE A COON WHILE IM SITTING IN THAT POOL hehehehe

and i dont like guys handling my dogs, unless there my buddies, or i give them permission.

BUT ID SAY YES IF MY DOG OR YOUR DOG WAS IN A STREET, ID LIKE SOMEONE TO GET HIM OUT.

but the question didnt ask about a street. it said creek and everyone esle went anouther route to the dogs ??
who's dog was still treeing ?? it sounded to me like his dog was ? and he was holding the two other dogs ??

but i wasnt there, thats why i said, and i quote
-------------------------------------------------
i ant got a rule book, but if another man handled my dog id like him scratched. hehehehe

however we didnt get the whole story ?? maby the judge could see all this take place from his side of the creek ??

and all was ok ??

maby i ought to mind my own business till i figure out the rules of this new game im in love with
---------------------
and that was my answer and still is.

release the hounds hehehehehe im ready to go hunt

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Old Post 10-03-2006 06:02 AM
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Hiphop
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 1962

You cant have people just leashing up other peoples dogs. What if your dog is trailing about to tree the coon and I leash him up?????????

Did the judge tell him to leash the dogs? Was he the judge?

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Old Post 10-03-2006 01:40 PM
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Tightline
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: East Texas = Polk County
Posts: 59

hey hiphop, i done figured out how im going to be the next coon hunting champion/hunter of the world. and ive never hunted professionaly yet

ill just make every hunt, and leash all the dogs in my cast hehehehehe
lmao

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They Will have to Pry My Cold Dead Fingers From My Tracking SYSTEM, and Shoot My 4 Wheeler Before i Quit Hunting
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Nope, I aint Matthew Quigley, but I taught the lad to Shoot. !!!!


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Old Post 10-03-2006 05:27 PM
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huntingwalkers9
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Asheville north carolina
Posts: 1728

re

i was talking to a guy at AO that said he hunted with a big time WIPEOUT dog and the dog come back and he had one of those RATS tracking collar with the long antenna and he said that he walked that dog around for 45 minutes by him holding the antenna...told the owner that the **** dog wouldnt leave him alone

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Old Post 10-03-2006 05:30 PM
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TJ RAYFIELD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

2 dogs fighting if known scratch the agressor, if not known scratch both dogs.

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Old Post 10-04-2006 12:16 AM
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huntingwalkers9
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Asheville north carolina
Posts: 1728

re

what if one dog has been growling all night but never made the attempt to fight?? is he the aggressor....or just the agitator. He hasnt interferd with any other dog, just growling when you get ready to turn him loose. say him and another dog get into a fight, would you scratch both, or just him?

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Old Post 10-04-2006 12:21 AM
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Dwils
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: wakarusa, indiana
Posts: 3304

quote:
Originally posted by PatrickRobinson
growling is showing aggression, I would rather have mine just go ahead and fight instead of sounding like a mountain lion all bowed up and growling.

SCRATCH both dogs and the handler for handling dogs...


what if the dog wasnt growlin at another dog- some dogs growl at the tree-lol- i see it alot from my old dog when he gets tired

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Old Post 10-04-2006 02:06 AM
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TJ RAYFIELD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

boys a dog growling is attempting to fight i give them 1 waring and the second time they are scratched. Normally in a cast I will know which dogs are a little touchy when we cast them . alot of the owners of ill dogs will cast their dog last or kinda hold on to em until the other hounds are a good part out.

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Old Post 10-04-2006 06:50 PM
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Hiphop
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 1962

Where does the warning come in at in the UKC rules???????

I've never understood how you can warn a dog anyway. I was in a cast with a PKC state leader that jumped on another dog when we turned loose. He was judging so he "Gave his self a warning". How can you warn yourself????????

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Old Post 10-04-2006 07:02 PM
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TJ RAYFIELD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

If he absoutely jumped on the other dog and he had to pull him off the other dog he should have been scratched.you could have stopped him right then and there and your cast should have voted on him being scratched or not and if he would have questioned it take it back to the moh. and let him scratch him.

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Old Post 10-04-2006 07:10 PM
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Hiphop
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 1962

quote:
Originally posted by TJ RAYFIELD
If he absoutely jumped on the other dog and he had to pull him off the other dog he should have been scratched.you could have stopped him right then and there and your cast should have voted on him being scratched or not and if he would have questioned it take it back to the moh. and let him scratch him.

PKC, no MOH, it would have went before a panel of his buddies.

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Old Post 10-04-2006 08:24 PM
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FGS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 40

If fighting is fighting and nothing else matters. Let me give you a scenerio. On a cast and call time out. While gathering the dogs up another handle with his dog in the box finds another dog on the cast. He throws the dog in the box with his dog and the fight breaks out in the box. Do you scratch the dogs then?

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Old Post 10-04-2006 09:03 PM
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al jackson
Banned

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: KENTUCKY
Posts: 558

quote:
Originally posted by Hiphop
PKC, no MOH, it would have went before a panel of his buddies.



walk with flip flop the coonhunting expert.you must hunt in alot of pkc hunts to know so much what is your pkc #

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Old Post 10-04-2006 11:29 PM
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TJ RAYFIELD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

If it was a pkc hunt then it should have been easier to scratch him you still should have voted. and I would at least made his buddies set up a panel.

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Old Post 10-05-2006 01:10 AM
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TJ RAYFIELD
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Decatur, TN
Posts: 834

Boys it is very easy to scratch a dog for fighting. all you have to do is speak up and say "Did Ya'll see that?" "I believe he should be scratched."

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Old Post 10-05-2006 01:12 AM
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