Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Bunn, NC (Near Raleigh)
Posts: 1584

I'd like to add a thought, not really about the percentages, but about a statement that I keep seeing.

The statement is, that papers don't tree coons.

That statement is TRUE, I agree with it to a point....However consider this. Papers can show...
1. Through the titles earned by a pups ancestors, that a pup is coming from a line of coondogs. We can't go back and hunt with those long dead dogs or even the ones alive that are too far away or retired.
2. We hunt these hunts because we believe they are an indicator to others as to how well our dog performs, yet if we dismiss the titles on those papers we also dismiss the entire competition hunting scene....so why hunt the hunts at all?
3. Coondogs + Coondogs = coondogs, Thats the truth! But i'd like to expand it to....Coondog from Coondogs + Coondog from Coondogs = Potentially great coondogs.......Again, how do we know if those coondogs in the past generations were coondogs? 2 things word of mouth or titles are the indicators that we use...I trust the titles because I trust the system that UKC has implemented...Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part the system works well...If it did'nt this message board and UKC events would be dead.

What I am trying to say is that papers don't make coondogs, but papers can give a good indication when looking to breed or buy a puppy.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 514

I believe it really comes down to who is promoting the dog. Whether the dog is all grand or not really doesn't matter. The guys that promote these hounds have quite a bit of money and above all can sell pups to anyone. Also, if you breed a dog enough, whether it is all grand or not, eventually some of them have bound to turn out. Look at Rat.....and now it is going to be Trackman....and so on. If enough people breed and buy those pups, there is no question some will show up in the big hunts and win. If someone took an ordinary old coon dog and did the same thing.....breed so many females that it floods the market, then some of those will show up also.

All grand or not is the question.....well I don't think it matters if you hunt the dog. Even the best out there, if it was never hunted it will be a dud regardless.....


Just my thoughts

Tim

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

sam,

I dont have any all grands. i do have a blue female and a walker male that I think alot of. Are you willing to guarantee your all grands will beat my dogs head to head and be able to tree more coons than them hunting alone not on feeders?

Rance

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
GREAT STATEMENT

And you are correct with your investment. Invest your money with a chance to get a return.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

quote:

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Originally posted by rance56
sam,

I dont have any all grands. i do have a blue female and a walker male that I think alot of. Are you willing to guarantee your all grands will beat my dogs head to head and be able to tree more coons than them hunting alone not on feeders?

Rance

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

If Im reading this correctly, Mr cotton is saying an all grand pup will have a better chance of turning out than a "pr" pup.

I doubt this very much.

The all grand has more to do with promoting and marketing than anything else.

If your goal is to sell pups and stud fees, then you would be much further ahead to start with an all grand pup.

Im just a dumb coonhunter whos hound dont get to town very often.

Im fine with that.

I cant help but wonder why Mr cotton is so bothered by all of us idiots that dont hunt all grand pups?

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: tupelo ms
Posts: 505

if you breed coondogs to coondogs, odds are there are going to be some grand nites in their pedigree. You can hunt a dog to death or not hunt it at all, it will have no bearing on what type pups it throws, it is either in its blood or not to reproduce. if it is allgrand then great, if it is a real coondog that has not been in the hunts then great, they both may be able to produce good quality pups.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4044

quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
You bluetickers had to have you own all blue world hunt to get a world champion, and you were not able to do that 2 years ago.

I did not know feeder coons smelled different that wild coons?

Is that not the same as the paper issue?

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Mason, Michigan
Posts: 3166

Sam, if you come on here and make a statement like this then you better be ready to explain. Level headed would be great instead of trying to sound like a smart ass and tell people they arent smart, just because they dont agree with you. If I was going to buy a pup right now it sure would be from you after these colors come out.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

quote:

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Originally posted by rance56
if i want to invest money, ill call a stock broker!
i want a dam coon dog not an investment.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

[quote="Thad Simpson"]Buckwheat isnt all grand and not even close. His sire is a UKC Nite Ch and a PKC Ch his mom has not ever never been in a hunt UKC PKC or any hunt. She is just a old country coondog owned by a good ole country boy, a good ole country boy that is making some money off of this cross! It's all in what you want and what you like All Grand or No Grand, it's who's hands your pup gets into. A good trainer will own a good dog, a bad trainer will own a well you know the terms!![/quote]

He is just one of the 80%.
Where are the rest.

Look at the numbers guys.

I see John Tredwell is listed in 3 breeder of the year slots, and he is getting it done with all grand.

Think about it. One guy a few hounds, and he is beating everyone else.

Where is the other 80%. You would think 80 beats 20, but it is not getting it done.

Why is all grand leading the pack in PKC when the majority of PKC is known not to care about UKC titled hounds.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

quote:

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Originally posted by walkercash
Sam, if you come on here and make a statement like this then you better be ready to explain. Level headed would be great instead of trying to sound like a smart ass and tell people they arent smart, just because they dont agree with you. If I was going to buy a pup right now it sure would be from you after these colors come out.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

quote:

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Originally posted by rance56
sam,

just answer the question. if you truely want me to make all grand a priority you need to show me what you got is better than what i got in the woods.

as far as feeder buckets go, culls can tree coons on feeder buckets, and thats a fact. anyways, im not worried about turning loose on feeder buckets, ill beat your eyes out on them. i was just curious to see if yours could tree a wild coon on their own. you might not know the answer either, if i remember correctly, you have never hunted with the one rat b1tch you own, you know the one that came from over here near me in georgia.

why dont you agree to let me come film her hunting by herself not on buckets?

im not against all grand at all, but its way down the list of priorites for me when it comes to owning/breeding dogs

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 705

A couple thoughts. I have to ask myself how many all grand pups did those top breeders have to sell to get one that can win $1000.00 and a few others that win a few hundred and get them listed as a top breeder, and how many of them are from one good liter? Basically, what is the percentage of good all grand pups to culls. The only way I would even think of spending $1000.00 on an 8 week old pup is if the breeder was willing to give a 100% money back guarentee that said pup would make a Nite Ch by 2 years of age. That is believing in your product. All this other garbage is just a way of getting pub to market pups. This is the motive for most posts like this, nothing else. It has been said that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
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quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
I see where you are working hard on finishing your to hounds out. They are still PR.


So do not be upset at me for reaching my goals.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
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quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
How many hunts did it take for you to finish sassy?

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Location: Mason, Michigan
Posts: 3166

quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
I see where you are working hard on finishing your to hounds out. They are still PR.


So do not be upset at me for reaching my goals.

---

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: London, Kentucky
Posts: 138

By reading your post I get the feeling you are upset because people are not buying your all Grand pups. That is what makes this sport nice everyone can buy and breed what they want. If all grand where such a sure thing breeders could just give them away and get rich from all the breeder money they would win! Best of luck to you just remember everybody doesn't have to think like you isn't that wonderful.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
Posts: 572

quote:

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Originally posted by Christy
SO, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, IS THAT YOU SET A GOAL TO FINISH YOUR DOGS OUT TO GRNTCH'S AND WIN ALL THESE BIG HUNTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.




WITH THAT BEING SAID.....


LET ME ASK YOU THIS.....




DID YOU FINISH YOUR DOGS TO GRNTCH'S?


OR


DID YOUR DOGS FINISH TO GRNTCH'S?



THINK CAREFULLY, OR YOU MIGHT JUST PROVE YOU CAN MAKE SUGAR OUT OF CRAP WITH YOUR ANSWER.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Aynor, South Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by rgregory
By reading your post I get the feeling you are upset because people are not buying your all Grand pups. That is what makes this sport nice everyone can buy and breed what they want. If all grand where such a sure thing breeders could just give them away and get rich from all the breeder money they would win! Best of luck to you just remember everybody doesn't have to think like you isn't that wonderful.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
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quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
You guys have jumped on me. Just showing that the percentage of success goes up with proven parentage.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: north carolina
Posts: 5

quote:

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Originally posted by Christy
SO, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, IS THAT YOU SET A GOAL TO FINISH YOUR DOGS OUT TO GRNTCH'S AND WIN ALL THESE BIG HUNTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.




WITH THAT BEING SAID.....


LET ME ASK YOU THIS.....




DID YOU FINISH YOUR DOGS TO GRNTCH'S?


OR


DID YOUR DOGS FINISH TO GRNTCH'S?



THINK CAREFULLY, OR YOU MIGHT JUST PROVE YOU CAN MAKE SUGAR OUT OF CRAP WITH YOUR ANSWER.

---

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 543

Well the supply and demand is starting to equal out on the all grands any way. When they first started promoting all grand studs and pups the price was rather high. But now there is so many dogs that are all grand that the price of pups has came down, and will continue to drop. As far as claming that the all grands are better that is funny, they are just dogs just like country coondogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
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quote:

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Originally posted by BlowHardHunter
is queen the female that wolfenberger had?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
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quote:

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Originally posted by cotton1
You just keep plugging along with ole sid. You and him will make it soon it.

I do not have to finish mine to grand they do it themself.

Queen 7 NT CH cast 6 cast wins. 5 high scoring dog.
Timber 11 total hunts from register to Grand nite
Josie 8 hunts

You will get there.

---

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*Banjo

Independent Consultant for Jamberry Nails!! Check them out!!

Quincy-828-269-8768
OR Christy-828-269-4678---If we dont answer, please leave a message!!!

EVERYTHING happens for a reason.

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