Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168 |
Re: "Jealousy"
quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***
OK, I've got two threads on here, that this topic could fit in, but since my train of thought is more "philisophical", I'll put it on here. AND, I'm even going to ask Joe for his opinion...
On this thread and other's, we've debated some of the quirks I have seen in my male dog and a few others. Now to start off, my male dog (as is the case with many Clover dogs) is independent as all get out! And when he's been hunting regularly, he backs that up with accuracy. But at the same time, if he's in a hunt with something that has a little "attitude" or simply looks at him cross eyed, he's inclined to sneak off (even after making first tree) and split tree for the sake of simply not being with that other dog. I and many others call this making a "jealousy tree". And I've heard a few call that a "Clover trait".
Now here's the hypothesis... what if the genetic trait is the indepence and the natural desire to be by themselves, and the learned trait, are these acts of "jealousy"? For example, I had a six month old, completely ignoring his daddy, just last night. But he of course isn't afraid of his daddy, and is usually quite social with him. So he's just naturally independent.
Said another way... what if they naturally want to be by themselves, but then you add to that getting whooped by another dog, or a handler whooping them for covering another dog, and now independence manifests itself, in acts of jealousy? They are naturally ok with being by themselves, and then something teaches them that they're better off that way?
That would explain why Boom acts the way he does (due to something he experienced), but his sister, half brother, and several of his pups, don't...
Dave,
You have hit on the age old question...."why does that dog do what he's doing?" Some times with some careful astute observation we can form a hypothesis, test it, and find the answer we are looking for. Other times no matter how hard we try to figure something out....they "just do it for no reason".
I think the root of what you are seeing as "jealousy" is that natural desire to be alone. I've seen it a lot in the Clover bred dogs, and have on an occasion or two battled it in my own dogs. I've seen those six month old pups be completely deaf to another dog, on a good night, and be accurate track and tree kind of dogs....then the conditions change, and they crutch a little off the old dogs...they back the old dog, but don't really want to. I've seen folks take those same pups and do what Warn did...lead them over and put them on the tree with the old dog and encourage them to tree.....in our minds we are telling them "it's okay"....well it may be okay with us....but it's not okay with them.
I believe that we the "trainer" make the situation worse by our desire to be "successful" every night. We continue to hunt the pup with the old dog, and one night the old dog beats the pup to the tree...they WANT to be independent, and they are not used to being second to the prize....so they slide over a tree or two and tree along with daddy.... In reality if that pup is capable of being independent, it should NOT BE HUNTED WITH ANOTHER DOG until it is sure enough of itself to either belly up with the "competition" or go somewhere and get another one.
I'm not saying that this is the ONLY reason this happens...I've seen ill tree dogs make one tree "close", but when I came upon this realization and stopped hunting young pups that could tree their own coon, and showed me a spirit of independence with another dog...for the most part my jealousy treeing issues went away.
Now if I have one that does that, I send them on to find one on their own. The only way a dog can learn anything is from repeating actions.....so if they learn that they can go on and find another coon....then the battle is won.
I've yet to see this problem be "man made", but I've seen it become a regular occurrence by mishandling the situation from the first time it occurs.
You males daddy was a dog to NEVER take second tree to anything....EVER. He was eaten up by an older female when he was 9 months old. He came in and covered the female who was having no part of it. And to the day he died at 12 years old I don't ever remember him taking second tree...he wanted to...to the point that he would do "drive byes"....making a couple of circles around the tree.....barking like he was running a track in an attempt to convince whatever dog treed ahead of him that they missed....if they came off the tree...he would go in and grab that tree....if they didn't, he would trail off into the distance, find another coon and get treed on that one. Matter of fact I won a PKC hunt once when the first dog there climbed the mulberry tree and pushed the coon out the top...Joker was there when the coon hit the ground and treed it 40 yards down the fence line...the dog that climbed the tree and initially treed the coon drew minus.
Now he had an independent streak a mile long, but he wasn't one to run past a coon to get to himself.... and he didn't grab a slick close by just to be a part of the action from a distance.... I know that is a little different.
I'm certain that at some point you may see this same thing in your pup. How you handle that will determine if it gets better, or worse. If you send him on.....make him go get one of his own instead of tying him while you shine his tree, then shining daddy's tree with him treed nearby....which do you think is going to be more beneficial to him. How did you handle it the first time Boom did it?
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Last edited by Oak Ridge on 10-30-2013 at 05:40 AM
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10-17-2013 01:59 AM
