Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I had a buddy send me a 1976 ukc score card. Two things stood out 3 minutes every dump it says from the pickup lol that your dog could bark before you had to strike him and 100 strike and 100 tree. And said 3 hrs up to 4 hrs.


I started in the hunts in 1979 and it was bark the first 3 minutes then on or before the 3 rd bark and there was a babbling clause. 3 hr hunt.



Best I remember lol.

Last edited by yadkintar on 04-23-2020 at 12:31 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1513

Boy oh Boy Tar, I remember the 3 hour hunts. don't remember them all that well anymore though. been a long time ago. I was a youngster back then compared to now.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Can't a club still hold a 3 hour hunt if they'd like to? I thought I remembered Allen saying that a year or so ago.

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I like the one hour lol. Maybe even 30 minutes. You ought to see the whole card you talk about different from now as night and day.


Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

I still think that old "after the first three minutes of the hunt, dog must be struck in on or before the third bark" rule was the better rule. A babbling dog was much easier to bust and would get busted.

If that rule was put back in place, we'd probably find a lot of dogs being eliminated from entering the hunts. Back then guys worked on a babbling dog. If they couldn't fix the problem, that "faulty" dog wouldn't make the nite hunt grade.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 2461

I'm all for eliminating babblers, I hate them. But I've hunted with lots of honest strike dogs that will bark a few times when being lined up and cut loose with 3 others. Maybe more like 5 barks? But Allen may not be able to count that high.

__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Lone Pine North

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
I still think that old "after the first three minutes of the hunt, dog must be struck in on or before the third bark" rule was the better rule. A babbling dog was much easier to bust and would get busted.

If that rule was put back in place, we'd probably find a lot of dogs being eliminated from entering the hunts. Back then guys worked on a babbling dog. If they couldn't fix the problem, that "faulty" dog wouldn't make the nite hunt grade.

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lone Pine JB
I'm all for eliminating babblers, I hate them. But I've hunted with lots of honest strike dogs that will bark a few times when being lined up and cut loose with 3 others. Maybe more like 5 barks? But Allen may not be able to count that high.

---

True. But back in the day, that dog that would loose bark more than twice, after the first cut of the night, was in trouble. So, you're right, I never had to learn to count higher than 3.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Tarbaby, you know exactly what made the big change. It was the hunters complaining about the rules or having to hunt for 3 hours.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I was young brother I could do 3 hrs walking backwards. This card is interesting to me but I love history. Ask me some questions and I will give you the rule. Might be of an evening after work.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

I've seen a lot more silent or tight-mouthed dogs than babbling dogs.

When UKC went to the 125 tree point rule for 1st tree, that kind of neutralized babbling dogs. 3rd strike-1st tree still beat them.

The biggest problem now is that 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th tree dogs can get the same points as a 1st tree dog (by splitting). Award tree points based on the order in which they tree (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th), and you again neutralize a babbler (unless they are also legitimate 1st tree dogs---meaning 1st to get treed).

If we awarded tree points based on the order in which dogs treed, a 3rd strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker). If we jumped 1st tree to 150, even a 4th strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker).

The strike points only become an issue when we give 1st tree points to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs (when they split).

The problem is the handlers of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs are getting 1st tree dog points, and think they are deserving. Then strike points become an issue, because aside from having a slow tree dog, they also have a slow strike dog. So, open dogs are now called babblers.

Why have special rules to benefit dogs that are slower to get treed???

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I won a lot of hunts with a last strike first tree dog ( because that’s all the strike that was left rather quickly off the snap ) A lot of babblers are not productive doing it they are like ................. where did the rabbit go George? Uh huh he might be over here nope maybe over there. Oh that dogs got a coon treed I will just go help him. I will hug eeem and squeeze eeeeem and call eeeem my friend uh huh.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
I won a lot of hunts with a last strike first tree dog ( because that’s all the strike that was left rather quickly off the snap ) A lot of babblers are not productive doing it they are like ................. where did the rabbit go George? Uh huh he might be over here nope maybe over there. Oh that dogs got a coon treed I will just go help him. I will hug eeem and squeeze eeeeem and call eeeem my friend uh huh.



Tar

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2768

quote:

---

Originally posted by honalieh


The biggest problem now is that 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th tree dogs can get the same points as a 1st tree dog (by splitting). Award tree points based on the order in which they tree (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th), and you again neutralize a babbler (unless they are also legitimate 1st tree dogs---meaning 1st to get treed).

If we awarded tree points based on the order in which dogs treed, a 3rd strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker). If we jumped 1st tree to 150, even a 4th strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker).

The strike points only become an issue when we give 1st tree points to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs (when they split).

The problem is the handlers of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs are getting 1st tree dog points, and think they are deserving. Then strike points become an issue, because aside from having a slow tree dog, they also have a slow strike dog. So, open dogs are now called babblers.

Why have special rules to benefit dogs that are slower to get treed???

---

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

---

Originally posted by honalieh
I've seen a lot more silent or tight-mouthed dogs than babbling dogs.

When UKC went to the 125 tree point rule for 1st tree, that kind of neutralized babbling dogs. 3rd strike-1st tree still beat them.

The biggest problem now is that 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th tree dogs can get the same points as a 1st tree dog (by splitting). Award tree points based on the order in which they tree (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th), and you again neutralize a babbler (unless they are also legitimate 1st tree dogs---meaning 1st to get treed).

If we awarded tree points based on the order in which dogs treed, a 3rd strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker). If we jumped 1st tree to 150, even a 4th strike, 1st tree dog wins every time (tiebreaker).

The strike points only become an issue when we give 1st tree points to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs (when they split).

The problem is the handlers of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs are getting 1st tree dog points, and think they are deserving. Then strike points become an issue, because aside from having a slow tree dog, they also have a slow strike dog. So, open dogs are now called babblers.

Why have special rules to benefit dogs that are slower to get treed???

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
I know you've laid out this theory before. I agreed then and still do. If they would give 1st tree points to the dog that treed the first coon and not to every dog that treed a coon alone it would be an absolute game changer. It no longer matters how good a track dog is or how fast they tree a coon...as long as when they finally do tree one they are alone.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2768

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sgraves
So its fine in everyone’s eyes to give a dog that is barking at nothing a 100 strick. .

---

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Some of these posts are absolutely hilarious, why anyone would think a dog treeing first on a separate track was better than a dog that tree later on a different coon is beyond reason. A better way would be to award strike points based on dogs treeing different coons, just like we do now with awarding different tree points for different trees. Our point system for strike and tree was based on the pack dog concept and worked just fine when dogs packed up. Now with dogs splitting in different direction, often striking and treeing different coons, the strike points ARE the problem. When dogs tree separate the tree points are adjusted accordingly, WHY can't the strike point be adjusted when it was determined the dog indeed was on a separate track, evidenced by the coon seen in the dogs tree. It does not take rocket science to figure this out, and would equalize the strike advantage. One simply fix for a problem that continues to be discussed over and over. It would negate the babbles advantage, it would negate the silient dogs disadvantage, and in FACT would be no different than awarding separate tree points for separate trees. Strike points SHOULD be treated no different for separate tracks. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Nope babblers don't last around here. Neither do dogs that have to be alone because they're too slow or ignorant to compete in a cast.
I don't think anybody was proposing a rule change...relax.

I didn't know Nancy coon hunted. That's cool.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sgraves
Some of stuff I read on hear leaves me wondering if Nancy doesn’t coon hunt. There is to many ways for a crooked handler to win a cast to take points away from a honest dog. If a dog trees it’s own coon it deserves a 100 on the tree. I understand what your saying. An there is good logic to what your saying. Until these dogs are judged without the handler adding his 2 cents leave it be to where a honest dog stands a chance. We can talk about babbling all we want. The guys with money are behind them dogs, has handlers pushing them dogs. It will take its course. Until then , well , I guess get on here an complain about it

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

---

Originally posted by novicane65
I'm not complaining, just stating some clouded thoughts. I don't blame the dogs or the handler/owner of the babbler. My dog should tree another coon than them, plain and simple. If that dog trees 2 coons then mine should tree 3.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Claxton, Ga
Posts: 768

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Some of these posts are absolutely hilarious, why anyone would think a dog treeing first on a separate track was better than a dog that tree later on a different coon is beyond reason. A better way would be to award strike points based on dogs treeing different coons, just like we do now with awarding different tree points for different trees. Our point system for strike and tree was based on the pack dog concept and worked just fine when dogs packed up. Now with dogs splitting in different direction, often striking and treeing different coons, the strike points ARE the problem. When dogs tree separate the tree points are adjusted accordingly, WHY can't the strike point be adjusted when it was determined the dog indeed was on a separate track, evidenced by the coon seen in the dogs tree. It does not take rocket science to figure this out, and would equalize the strike advantage. One simply fix for a problem that continues to be discussed over and over. It would negate the babbles advantage, it would negate the silient dogs disadvantage, and in FACT would be no different than awarding separate tree points for separate trees. Strike points SHOULD be treated no different for separate tracks. Dave

---

__________________
Curtis J Todd
912-618-8412

Team Blazin' Timber

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Claxton, Ga
Posts: 768

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Some of these posts are absolutely hilarious, why anyone would think a dog treeing first on a separate track was better than a dog that tree later on a different coon is beyond reason. A better way would be to award strike points based on dogs treeing different coons, just like we do now with awarding different tree points for different trees. Our point system for strike and tree was based on the pack dog concept and worked just fine when dogs packed up. Now with dogs splitting in different direction, often striking and treeing different coons, the strike points ARE the problem. When dogs tree separate the tree points are adjusted accordingly, WHY can't the strike point be adjusted when it was determined the dog indeed was on a separate track, evidenced by the coon seen in the dogs tree. It does not take rocket science to figure this out, and would equalize the strike advantage. One simply fix for a problem that continues to be discussed over and over. It would negate the babbles advantage, it would negate the silient dogs disadvantage, and in FACT would be no different than awarding separate tree points for separate trees. Strike points SHOULD be treated no different for separate tracks. Dave

---

__________________
Curtis J Todd
912-618-8412

Team Blazin' Timber

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Your going to see more coon treeing contest with these new rules. No more babble blow deep one coon a hunt leash lock you winners anymore.


Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Your going to see more coon treeing contest with these new rules. No more babble blow deep one coon a hunt leash lock you winners anymore.


Tar

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged