Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 419

This year 3 world ch. we're whelped raised and trained by there owner's I don't think that has happened in a long time ukc , pkc, akc were all bred and trained by there owner's

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

If you want something done right, do it yourself...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

1. The owner needs to know what a great hunting dog is...

2. Cannot have kennel blindness...must be able to see the truth

3. Family tree...should have lots of honest, great hunting dogs that have proven themselves as great competition dogs...

4. Once bred the dam should be hunted...I believe in epigenetics and mitochondria changes in the cells etc...

5.when the pups are born...socialize them well and keep them healthy...

6. Test pups for natural ability...winding, locating, how they range etc...condition to gunfire by 8 weeks old...

7. Expose pups to staged training sessions but never over do it...take pups from pen to training area...you want the pups fresh and not right after eating...but before, you want the pups fresh giving it all they got...

I could keep going but I am not a coon hunter so I only talked about setting the foundation...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: AUBURN, IN.
Posts: 1706

I raised a pup GR. NT.CH. CHEEK'S STYLISH HACK --went on to win the ACHA ORIGINAL WORLD HUNT -IN 2000 at CENTRAL CITY ,IOWA --

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ALLNITER DOUG CHEEK

ALWAYS GO BY THE RULES AND NEVER A PROBLEM

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 419

That's great Mr. Cheek that's what it is really all about to see if you can raise and train your own Woodstock and compete with them as you please

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Marv Schmucker raised and trained WC Janis Joplin. Don't remember the year.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

I miss Marv being on here as a regular

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

I thought this was going to be an awesome thread with many replies...

I don't competition hunt so I will never breed and raise one to competition hunt much less win a world championship...however, I know how I would plan for it...right or wrong...
The hardest part is finding the best possible dogs to breed...

then comes laying the foundation...we hunt the grown dogs and critique them extremely hard and then breed them and hope it clicks...so breeding the right relatives usually works...

The next and very important step is in puppy selection...keep as many as possible at first and as long as you can...test them for NATURAL ABILITY...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

One example of testing for natural ability...
In the morning when the pups are hungry...give them all a treat through the fence such as diced and semi cooked liver or chunks of fried chicken from Kentucky fried or whatever meat...something very tasty...always from upwind...we want the pups to use their noses...by the third morning just walk by the kennel and let them wind the small treats...scatter treats upwind from pups in the yard...observe pups before letting them out to see if any are focused and winding...remember those pups...open the gate and if we're lucky one or two pups will know what to do...clap you hands and sic-em on...observe how they work...how they circle, wind and locate and how fast they move and how they hold their heads...and who finds the most...repeat this 4 or 5 times in the next couple of weeks and you will see which pups are best at locating and finding the most...I like to see a pup circle to the downwind side and then follow its nose towards the tidbit and locate...

Hungry stomachs makes them work harder...we want good work ethics...
These observations are clues of greater things to come...we are learning as to how each pup works "NATURALLY"...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 12-31-2018 at 12:07 AM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

Sometimes we see a pup in the litter that we like quite a bit more than the rest...and if this pup turns out like we want then it will be a real pleasure to hunt this pup...

Sometimes there is a pup that from 6 weeks we start to see something different in this pup...he appears to be standoffish but he is not...he has a sophistication about him...an above it all attitude...a very confident air about him...sometimes he will kick back and observe the other pups playing and then he will jump up and go play hard with his siblings for a while...then he will go off and explore his surroundings...then when you start hunting this pup you say wow...thank you lord...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 12-30-2018 at 11:01 AM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

I put quite a bit more emphasis on the foundation...all else will fall into place when we keep the very best pups that are born with that natural ability...

To me it's not about breeding the next world champion...its about breeding the best dogs we can...the goal is for the dogs to look good in any company...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 12-30-2018 at 10:58 AM

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Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 117

Good posts Reuben

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Reuben you mentioned several very good points in your post.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

Thanks...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: AUBURN, IN.
Posts: 1706

my GRAND NIGHT CHEEK'S STYLISH HACK

BY SACKETT JR, on the top

bottom --SAWYERS TRUMP --ADREON ROXIE

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ALLNITER DOUG CHEEK

ALWAYS GO BY THE RULES AND NEVER A PROBLEM

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Registered: May 2016
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Posts: 42

First off you have to know greatness when you see it. When I say this hope no one takes offense. Very few people have hunted with a truely great dog. A dog that on his off night which they all have he is still better than 90 percent of the dogs he is hunting with. The dogs that seem to all ways be in the hunt know how to win and do the right things to win. I have trained three top dogs so far and more adverage dogs that I can count. The great ones should win at least 15 out of 20 casts. Dogs the do that normally will all ways be in the mix for those world titles.

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Registered: Jan 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 241

I have been bless to hunt with 4 world champions on a regular basis over the years. I agree with you a 100% midnightghost.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: southeast alabama
Posts: 180

No offense taken. So when you say see greatness, are you saying you picked it out at young age? If so what stood out? Did you know what would be average and which would be great right off the bat or a year into training? Did you train from a pup or get them when started? Please enlighten us.

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Brian Garner

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

I agree...as midnightghost and lonesomedog1 already mentioned...a great dog does not have bad days or nights...these dogs make finding game look easy...

A good dog finds game and will work to find game when it is scarce...

A great dog makes finding scarce game look easy...

and I have seen folks that did not see greatness unfolding before their eyes...you have to know it to see it...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: May 2016
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Posts: 42

Well two of the three I got at nine months old they had been running loose at the same guys house making trouble around his place and he got mad at them. The other one I rasied from a pup. The first thing to remember is what are you hunting them with I already had a above adverage coon dog. Those pups at just a couple of weeks of hunting could naturally tree Coons better than my trained dog. Yes they would be messing up. Running junk treeing stuff treeing game shouldn't but like a sports player you could start to see they were naturally gifted. That's the part of knowing it when you see it. Then as a trainer you have to have the tools to polish the diamond in the ruff. When you take them to a hunt they win so easy you take it for granted. Two of the three I have had guys with draw in the parking lot and not even hunt against them and then walk along in the cast to watch them go. Still one of the craziest things I have seen. I just wish I had the money back then to really push them now I have money and no dog lol.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

First I must go on the record as stating I have NEVER won a world championship from any sanctioning organization. Having said that I have won the breed/sex side of a world champion with a dog of which I had owned raised and trained 70-80% of all the dogs in his pedigree for the previous 25-30 years.

For me it was watching generation after generation of these dogs with a better nose than most I competed against, quicker strike than most of the dogs I competed against, Quicker Locate, than most of the dogs I competed against, more independent then most, and more accurate than most. Those were the basic ingredients of what I knew I had. Then there is this thing of having your dog peak in its ability at just the right time. You see dogs cycle with ability and effort just like race horses. You must be able to read your hound in knowing when it is peaking and when it has over peaked and needing time off. Many people never realize that animals peak, just the same as human athletes peak. Most folks think if they are clicking after 21 straight nights, the will become super super strong after 42 nights, and unbeatable after 84 nights. Yes they will still be good after 42 nights, and they will be good after 84 nights, but you may have just went over board just a little on their ability to compete at the very top of their game.

The key is having a truly GREAT hound, handled by a truly GREAT handler, that understands most every rule in every situation, and that same person understanding what the hounds body action is telling him, is as far as does the hounds internal instinct need more charging, or more discharge (work) so that this hound is peaking in performance during the week of competition.

That's my two cents for what it is worth. Good Post for sure!

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

Now we're talking...thank you midnightghost, lonesomedog1 and Rocketman55... I greatly appreciate what you guys said...dogs of the type you are talking about only come along once in a while...you guys were lucky to have had them and were able to see what you had...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-01-2019 at 11:32 AM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

A good to great dog looks good in any company...the genetics is there to have the instincts to do what it was bred to do...


a once in a lifetime dog does what the above mentioned dogs do...except it is a smarter dog...he makes it look easy...this dog usually will not be fooled and he knows how to line out a track...it is almost like they can think...they can do things at 4, 6, and 10 months of age that some dogs will never learn...

it took me years to really find the right answer...because great dogs are great...

For me the answer is brain power...that is the difference...

a child star that can act and sing is born and not made...

a once in a lifetime dog is born and not made...

so what can a great handler with a dog of this caliber do?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

Rockertman55...I never heard it the way you explained it...good post.

The only thing I will add to what you said and I am sure you will agree...the better we feel going into a hunt the dogs will do better as well...it seems the dogs can pick up on our feelings...

The better dogs I like them best at 2 years old...they are young, powerful and enthusiastic and can get it done...

The more average the dog I like them best at three

My preferences...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 01-01-2019 at 11:56 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

I'm glad someone touched on the peaking, I think most people never realize this is a thing. All athletes peak, people, dogs, chickens, horses. You have to find when your dogs is at the top and how long they can be till they need a rest.

It's something I'd like to learn more about and how to find it in my hounds. I know guys who condition birds to peak and have a very good idea when they should. I've just never done it with a dog on purpose and realized it.

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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