Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I see on here from time to time questions about getting the night hunt rules changed. Can someone tell me if I have the big picture correct. Each breed of hound that is a recognized coon hound breed has a Chartered Association recognized by UKC. I think yearly those associations have meetings an vote on any rule changes brought before them. Not sure if it is the general membership voting or the board of directors. Then if any rule changes get past them they go somewhere to be voted on by all breed associations. Not clear on that or who they may be. Some say there should be rule changes and many say the never see any. Some say this because the old timers on the boards are not hunting anymore and don't understand the needs of the hunters hunting today.
If the above if true I think we need to give Allen and Todd a lot of credit for holding all this together and administrating rules that have some very outdated issues and never will be changed.
Now lets roll the clock forward to the Super Slam hunts. There have been some changes to those rules. How did that happen and who governs them. Is it because money is involved you tweak some rules to determine the better hound.
I think tweaking some of the rules to determine a better hound when hunting for trophies would be a step in the right direction.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2768

That's about how it works Bruce to the best of my knowledge. I asked on another thread why or who or how the slam rules got tweaked to make sense lol but nobody bit.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

Bruce, I believe it does go through the different breed associations at the membership meetings, then the breed rep's meet with UKC to discuss any rule changes. My question would be of all the people on here wanting this or that rule changed actually belong to the breed association of the breed they hunt.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Christiansburg,VA
Posts: 6289

I have a bigger ? Do the people from the breed associations get out there and hunt I mean hard to make a good dog correct his or her faults as much as ya can than go to a hunt have to cary a stopwatch for this that and the other draw line threw this delete that call time out for this or that leash lock dogs or what ever y'all know if ya hunt sometimes I feel like all these rules are put in to make up for strengths or weakness of some dogs line I miss the old days I guess when ya went out and slugged it out for 3 hours like the days of the old west standing in the street at high noon

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Mr. Conkey, You are a great guy to deal with and I like your posts...they sure get people thinking at the very least. In fact, I'd like to see all the guys comments that don't post replies!!!
In regards to this post, I have to tell you like I used to tell my employees...don't come up with problems unless you can also offer solutions!!! Exactly what rules would you change if you alone could rewrite the scorecard??? You don't have to tell us "why", just the new rules please....

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

The coming in to off game after the 5 min rule makes no sense to me you get a free pass on off game but you get a whammy for a coon if you get there late your dog should at least get its strike minused for quiting it's track.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Msinc you caught me. Lol. I am totally fine with the rules because of my small involvement with actually hunting UKC hunts. But I see many coming on here with specific ideas about rules and rule changes that seem to have some valid points. Thing is to my knowledge you can come on here till your blue in the face and never get a rule changed. I just wanted some with knowledge of how it worked to educate UKC hunters on this board and encourage hunters to join there breed associations. Someone asked about being a member of you breed association and that was one of the fairest questions every asked on here and I thank my Allen for pointing that out. Yes UKC has a foundation in place. I am just not sure how many are aware of what it is and if it needs shifting a little. Just how to do that.
That's really the thinking I had with this post. To look at the big picture and see if it is working today. Not just changing one rule.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 05-28-2016 at 06:23 PM

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Haha...I understand!!! I agree, if a rule needs changed or could be made agreeably or reasonably better then change it. Many guys do not have a clue and must believe that if they get on this forum and complain enough Allen will get out his ink pen and go to work....All that said, there is something to be said for rules that are able to stay the same...eventually everyone learns them better and has a better handle on understanding the rules. Change them constantly and you have that relearning thing all over again.
I thought you wanted to charge double entry fees for hillbillies with blueticks or something....

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1745

Bruce... super slam rules were tweaked by a majority of the hunters @ the onset of this series. What I don't understand is why in one event it took a majority to institute a rule change and then @ another S.S. it took a lone decenter to block a rule change......THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND !

Last edited by Dogwhisper on 05-28-2016 at 06:53 PM

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Location: off the res.
Posts: 3416

I think the rules committee meets at AO usually every 3 years to review the rules and change some. The last rule changes took place Jan. 1,2014. If I remember correctly there are 2 breed reps. from each breed that have a vote at the rule change meeting. That would make 14 people and what ever UKC staff are there. I do know that the breeds vote on rule changes they want at their meetings during the rule change years. I know that the breed reps. vote on the changes and it takes a majority to pass each one.

Maybe the rules could be made more understandable. I believe the next rule changes are supposed to take effect Jan 1, 2017.

Last edited by Bob Hennessey on 05-29-2016 at 02:11 PM

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Registered: Mar 2008
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I think the only hitch in the pollicy that exists is that the breed reps that are putting forth the potential changes and voting on them are seldom active competition hunters.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 784

I think the UKC rules are the best set of rules out there. They have stood the test of time and there is little need for change. Striking in for next available strike and 125 for first tree are two of the things that make the UKC scoring system the best.

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think the only hitch in the pollicy that exists is that the breed reps that are putting forth the potential changes and voting on them are seldom active competition hunters.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

A lot of hunters have a style of dogs that can win with the rules of a certain kc. When they have problems winning in another kc, all of a sudden they hate that set of rules. It takes a good dog to win consistently in all kc's.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

My own opinion is that the older generation is the majority of those that have a vote. They for the most part are wise enough to realize that the nitehunt rules have a major influence on the type of dog that is being bred for. So they are very hesitant to make major changes.

We have already almost drove a great track dog into extinction. Why? Because it is much easier to breed for and train dogs not to compete with other dogs for the same coon than it is to breed better track dogs. If you have a dog that flys thru the country bushing easy coon while the others work the first track they come across, you have a winner. Now if you can get him to run junk or just bark at nothing while hes flying around the country,you have a big winner,and many will breed to him even though he cant hardly run a track.

I'm just saying, look at and really think about the big picture of what the rule change you want will do to the future of our hounds before campagning for the change.
I think the powers that are in place now do a good job of thinking things thru.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

[QUOTE]Originally posted by elvis
My own opinion is that the older generation is the majority of those that have a vote. They for the most part are wise enough to realize that the nitehunt rules have a major influence on the type of dog that is being bred for. So they are very hesitant to make major changes.

We have already almost drove a great track dog into extinction. Why? Because it is much easier to breed for and train dogs not to compete with other dogs for the same coon than it is to breed better track dogs. If you have a dog that flys thru the country bushing easy coon while the others work the first track they come across, you have a winner. Now if you can get him to run junk or just bark at nothing while hes flying around the country,you have a big winner,and many will breed to him even though he cant hardly run a track.



I'm just saying, look at and really think about the big picture of what the rule change you want will do to the future of our hounds before campagning for the change.
I think the powers that are in place now do a good job of thinking things thru. [/QUOTE

Could not have said it better. As far as the slams go, some tweaking was done to encourage the money hunters to give ukc a try.

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Registered: Aug 2014
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Posts: 780

Untill UKC stops rewarding dogs for "barking", automatic first strike dogs, I will not take a title serious. I believe current rules have created a bunch of loose mouthed dogs that are looking for other dogs instead of coon.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
I think the rules committee meets at AO usually every 3 years to review the rules and change some. The last rule changes took place Jan. 1,2014. If I remember correctly there are 2 breed reps. from each breed that have a vote at the rule change meeting. That would make 14 people and what ever UKC staff are there. I do know that the breeds vote on rule changes they want at their meetings during the rule change years. I know that the breed reps. vote on the changes and it takes a majority to pass each one.

Maybe the rules could be made more understandable. I believe the next rule changes are supposed to take effect Jan 1, 2017.

---

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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I'm just saying, look at and really think about the big picture of what the rule change you want will do to the future of our hounds before campagning for the change.
I think the powers that are in place now do a good job of thinking things thru. [/B][/QUOTE]



Considering the big picture is a very, very, very important point. Simply voting yes or no based on personal preference or what's tied out behind the barn could be detrimental to the sport as a whole. There's a lot to consider when considering any rules change. We can't afford to be naïve about it.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Christiansburg,VA
Posts: 6289

Well you could just post the rule changes on the message board have a vote to see what people think not to mention all of the input that would discuss all of the pro's and cons of each rule change and you could put the King in charge of the discussion

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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~~ Thomas Jefferson

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

quote:

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Originally posted by wbond
Well you could just post the rule changes on the message board have a vote to see what people think not to mention all of the input that would discuss all of the pro's and cons of each rule change and you could put the King in charge of the discussion

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
You're right, we could put the King in charge of the discussion. But let's not.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Christiansburg,VA
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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
Experience has proven to me that when the "king" is seated at the table....the discussion is seldom the same anyways.

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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~~ Thomas Jefferson

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

Putting the rules on the forum to be voted on doesn't really make a lot of sense. There's only 14 different people that have commented on this discussion. So would you want maybe 30 or 40 people that get on this web site voting on the rules or have the rules brought up at the different breed meetings where you have a lot of people involved. My suggestion is join your breed association and make your case for the rule changes you would like to see and let the membership vote.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

I actually pushed to change getting scratched for not calling your dog by the 3rd bark. I had to scratch myself a couple of times due to judging. I was hunting a dog that sometimes chopped on track. She could spit out 3 barks before I could say strike my dog. Scratching seemed too harsh, and minused seemed more appropriate.

It seemed dumb that a handler didn't have to tree their dog, but I could get scratched for being too slow to say two words.

I wrote many letters looking for support. So I would say the system does work.

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