Registered: Oct 2015
Location: N. Florida
Posts: 18

First of all let me start out by saying that I do not consider myself a so called "coon hunter " but then again I do coon hunt and could safely say that I tree more coons in a year than 80% of the hardcore "coon hunters" in my area. About 2 years ago I started getting back into coon hunting for the first time since I use to go back before my grandfather passed away 20 years or so ago and it just seems to me like competition hunting has ruined what coon hunting is too me, it's supposed to be about spending time in the woods with friends and family and breeding and raising good hounds that will tree coons. now it seems like people are just breeding papers and not coon dogs. I have tried countless dogs and have yet to find one hound that I would pay money for. All of them either have no hunt to them, or are just slick treeing idiots . Then when you give people your opinion about the dog it's always the same answer well he's bred this way you could just breed him. The dogs that I'm hunting now are just young dogs that I bred for hog dogs and decided to make coon dogs out of and I would put them against any dog I've hunted around so far. If we were hunting to see who could come home with the most meat at the end of the night. just seems like the UKC rules and circle points have ruined coondogs. I for one hunt year round and it seems like no one now a days wants to hunt except for the cold nights and on average not more than 3 months a year. I personally do not feel you should own a dog that your not going to hunt more a few nights a year and think that people should be more strict on their breeding programs. If a dog will not get out and hunt strike a track and come to tree with meat in it then it should not be bred regardless what his bloodlines are.

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If there's not meat in the tree then you don't have a coondog.
Home of no NTCH or GRNTCH's
No Papers No worries
just breeding good honest hounds for purpose and pleasure

Last edited by Flatwoodblues on 11-22-2015 at 10:15 AM

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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 77

Ukc rules and circle points have not ruined competition coon hunting. The ukc rules have been around ever since I started hunting 20 years ago. Coon hunting was ruined when it started to become all about the money. And I agree with you 110% people are breeding papers not coon hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

I agree with most of what you say. Competition hunting and coon hunting are as different as golf and tennis. Tracking equipment has made a lot of this possible. Most hunters don't care to hear dogs trail. One bark to strike is enough. Then they find them treed somewhere and hope they have a coon. If no coon is found, it's not a big deal. And please, no two dogs together on track or tree.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 232

You fellas need to find a new hobby. But, on a high note, the length of time you spent considering what you were going to type and then typing it out was time you weren't spending complaining about something else to your family.

For a lot of us it is just fine. I am probably older than any of you on this thread. I have seen the changes come and go. I enjoy it as much today as I did yesterday. If you cup was half full you would be happier.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location: Huntsville, MO
Posts: 489

quote:

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Originally posted by Nelson Kirkland
You fellas need to find a new hobby. But, on a high note, the length of time you spent considering what you were going to type and then typing it out was time you weren't spending complaining about something else to your family.

For a lot of us it is just fine. I am probably older than any of you on this thread. I have seen the changes come and go. I enjoy it as much today as I did yesterday. If you cup was half full you would be happier.

---

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

Theres good dogs and hunters out their. In the comp hunts I don't see very many dogs with no hunt but I do see some with accuracy issues. There are things I don't like that I see in comp hunts and that's babblers and dogs that are real tight on track. I think the accuracy issue and the babbling issue are 75% man made and if nipped in the bud while young can be fixed easy. Ive never fixed a dog that didn't have drive, Im not a good enough trainer to do it I guess. That's why I have to have the dog born with it.

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Carrollton,Mo.64633
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1513

My Boo Ticks are open trailers, they hunt a plenty hard, they are a plenty fast, when finished out they have the meat a high percentage of the time, they are non aggressive. Myself and most of my friends that I hunt with are in our late 50s and 60s and we will hunt all year round. Our blues are bred from some of the most competitive blue ticks out there today. We hunt the Jet, Hammer, Echo, Smokey River and every thing else that might be rolled up in there. Close up there is Gauge, Boomer, Echo Joe and Piazon. I live in Ohio where a guy can hunt a lot if you want to. Pleasure hunting is the main focus of our hunting and we will get in the hunts occasionally. The Walkers, Black and Tans, English, Redbones, and others all have good solid hounds and breeding programs to offer. For the last 20 years or so I have not had to use another hound to start the new prospect, all have started by their lonesome and then weaned in with other finished hounds to round them out. No they all don't make the grade but far more then when I was a boy.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I have had good luck with watching the consistent winners in the hunts I mean the ones that win with plus point scores watch them for a while see what they cross good with most of the stud dog men are hunting there studs now days and don't mind showing you they're dog but your going to still have to do some culling to get what you want !!

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Everyone decries "breeding for papers" but in fact, that is breeding for genetics. You need to look at and consider what those papers say in order to get the genetics you want.
There are two basic schools of thought on breeding, breeding based on genetics and breeding based on performance. Whether you choose genetics or best to best, papers matter.
As for the doom and gloom offered in that first post, I'm not inclined to give all that much consideration to words of wisdom from someone who just got back into the sport two years ago.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

I have buddy I hunt with a few times a year, one of his favorite things to do is put down good competition dogs. Last year he got a pup and the first thing he did was shove the pups papers in my face and started pointing to the titled dogs. This might be a little off topic

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

Flatwoodblues Iv had 4 sets of papers (2 males an 2 females) siting in a controlled environment for a few years now an im sill waiting on the day they reproduce a liter of pups. Now if you won't to load your crap up that Can Beat Everything in your neighborhood an come to mine you Just May Leave With a Different Attitude! And That is My humble opinion!!!

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Last edited by nitehunter2004 on 11-22-2015 at 03:14 PM

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

How does competition hunting ruin coon hunting? Do field trials ruin bird hunting? this doesnt make sense! Plus points win! Period. people ruin things and believe it or not it shouldnt matter to you what the other guy has if you got a coondog. just enjoy treein them coon and quit stirrin the pot! thats my humble opinion.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Maybe you should define "coon hunting" and "competition coon hunting". Maybe one man's "coon hunting" is not the same as another man's "coon hunting". Everyone is different and has different expectations. Why do a lot of people think that "their" way is the only way or the best way? Different people like different things. The great thing about coonhunting and this country in general is that everyone can find what they like or enjoy if they just look hard enough. But they can also find what they don't like. (And they are free to complain about it in public.)

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Maybe ive got the wrong idea i thought both were the same idea to run and tree as many coon as possible and make as few mistakes as possible! Thats the way i pleasure hunt.

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Registered: Aug 2015
Location:
Posts: 73

Mr Flatwoodblues. Bring those young super hog/coon dogs to the next $KC hunt in your neck of the woods and get back to us with a pic of your win slips.

Make sure you go when the leaves are off so your hounds can't be beat

Heck post the date and hunt you are going to attend and maybe a few of us will show up to boot!

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nelson Kirkland
You fellas need to find a new hobby. But, on a high note, the length of time you spent considering what you were going to type and then typing it out was time you weren't spending complaining about something else to your family.

For a lot of us it is just fine. I am probably older than any of you on this thread. I have seen the changes come and go. I enjoy it as much today as I did yesterday. If you cup was half full you would be happier.

---

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Mr Thompson; loud, quick, fast and in a hurry differentiates the comp dogs from the pleasure hounds. And nowadays you have to add deep and lonely. I don't know very many pleasure hunters that are looking for a deep and lonely type of hound.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

A dog i just sold was just placed in the top 18 of the $kc world hunt he struck when he smelled a coon gave average mouth and started looking for a coon as soon as he was cut loose and would have the coon when he treed just a steady coondog and he was not fast to move a track would tree alone but usually close with a coon when he treed! And he walked right thru the best in the country so thats the point im tryin to make guys just because someone thinks what wins doesnt mean they are right.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Thompson; loud, quick, fast and in a hurry differentiates the comp dogs from the pleasure hounds. And nowadays you have to add deep and lonely. I don't know very many pleasure hunters that are looking for a deep and lonely type of hound.

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__________________
T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel (SEMEN)
GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Nite Life Pay Dirt (SEMEN)
GrNtCh PKC Ch Poison Smoke (SEMEN)


HomeMade Kennels
Newton N.C
2010 SETWA BREEDER OF THE YEAR!!
(828) 302-5480

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by rthompson
..... just a steady coondog and he was not fast to move a track..... And he walked right thru the best in the country.....

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Oh my goodness, now how in the world did he do that?

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1201

I never understood the difference between a pleasure and compitition hound either. A real winner is almost boring to pleasure hunt they make it look so easy. The last pro hunt we went to we were in 4 cast. 17 coons were scored in the 4 cast. I would have liked to have seen some of these great pleasure dogs tree that many coons in 8 hours of being hunted in North al southern tn. None of them had to get in a hurry. They were only on the same tree a few times. I have hunted with alot of the winningest hounds of all time. They all had one thing in common. They went hunting, got treed, good about staying, real good about having coons. And most importantly they made you pay for making mistakes. When you go to these big hunts held by $kc and you see a group if handlers talking that have been and stayed at the top they may all like a little different style. But I have never heard one say they would rather have speed over accuracy. Some of the biggest winners I hunted with were medium speed but had coons for you to look at almost every time they parked

Last edited by N Williams on 11-22-2015 at 06:19 PM

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, now how in the world did he do that?

---

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Registered: Oct 2015
Location: N. Florida
Posts: 18

I think I may have been misunderstood. First of all I've been a dog man my whole life and I enjoy it more than anything else and I know that there is a supposed big difference in comp dogs and pleasure dogs but in the end on both ends of the spectrum it's about treeing coons aint it. but my main concern is most people but NOT all that I've talked to since getting back into coon hunting just seem to tolerate a lot of bad out of dogs and then breed em. to me any dog you own that is worth feeding should be able to do it with no help and be honest about it in the process. now it seems like some but not all comp hunters are flooding the market with dogs that are just pack dogs and that want to tree more than hunt. And if the few of you that would like to call me out on it would like to come down and show my mutts up than your more than welcome got a place you can stay and everything and welcome a friendly competition, but we will be apart bring a friend with ya and he can ride with me to make sure I aint cheating and I'll send some one with you to do the same and we will be hunting for most coons knocked out and not for babbling strike points or slick treeing circle points.

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If there's not meat in the tree then you don't have a coondog.
Home of no NTCH or GRNTCH's
No Papers No worries
just breeding good honest hounds for purpose and pleasure

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:

---

Originally posted by Flatwoodblues
I think I may have been misunderstood. First of all I've been a dog man my whole life and I enjoy it more than anything else and I know that there is a supposed big difference in comp dogs and pleasure dogs but in the end on both ends of the spectrum it's about treeing coons aint it. but my main concern is most people but NOT all that I've talked to since getting back into coon hunting just seem to tolerate a lot of bad out of dogs and then breed em. to me any dog you own that is worth feeding should be able to do it with no help and be honest about it in the process. now it seems like some but not all comp hunters are flooding the market with dogs that are just pack dogs and that want to tree more than hunt. And if the few of you that would like to call me out on it would like to come down and show my mutts up than your more than welcome got a place you can stay and everything and welcome a friendly competition, but we will be apart bring a friend with ya and he can ride with me to make sure I aint cheating and I'll send some one with you to do the same and we will be hunting for most coons knocked out and not for babbling strike points or slick treeing circle points.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Sounds like you deal with a lot of idiots im sorry about that but just because a man hits some hunts with a cull doesnt mean you should judge everyone the same. there are alot of men that have very high standards in a dog and the ones that win big are more than what you may think they are.

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