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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

question

Dog is struck in. Is at slick not treeing when we get there. What happens to strike points. Minus, circle, delete.

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groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

minus

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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

question

What rule are you quoting?

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RLenhart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

4k

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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

question

Read post again. Dog was NOT treeing. Showed no signs of treeing.

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groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

4a dog quit track ! sorry it took so long wanted to get my rule book

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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

dog

dog did not come to us. was around tree when we got there. Don't think that rule applies.

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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Did you handle the dog?

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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

bb

yes.

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sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

He has to get minus

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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
4a dog quit track ! sorry it took so long wanted to get my rule book


4-a does not apply to this situation. Dogs handled at tree are never considered to have quit track because they are REQUIRED to be handled at a tree.
I think 4-k is the right answer. A dog handled at the tree when the cast arrives is considered treed, barking or not. Just as only one dog is required to bark when multiple dogs are treed. I think his strike is minused under 4-k and he is also assigned next available position on tree and minused those points also.

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GA DAWG
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Yep. Double whammy cause its a slick tree. Dog should of went on somewhere else.

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Old Post 08-23-2015 09:30 PM
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brujan182
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

question

I agree dog should have been some where else. Tough situation. The tree had fallen into river. Coon took to the water. Third dog was there also so by Jims account he would be given tree points also and minused. 4-k says treeing but not declared.
No problem on cast. No score. I would just like to know.
Nobody so far has quoted a rule that fits.

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GA DAWG
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

The tree had fell plum into the river?

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Old Post 08-23-2015 11:10 PM
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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
The tree had fell plum into the river?


Lol 😁

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brujan182
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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

QUESTION

One of dogs was pretty big. He leaned on it to hard.

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Old Post 08-23-2015 11:17 PM
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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Re: question

quote:
Originally posted by brujan182
I agree dog should have been some where else. Tough situation. The tree had fallen into river. Coon took to the water. Third dog was there also so by Jims account he would be given tree points also and minused. 4-k says treeing but not declared.
No problem on cast. No score. I would just like to know.
Nobody so far has quoted a rule that fits.



The rule I can see that best "fits", now that we know "the rest of the story" {you never mentioned a river} is 5 {A} "In case of running coon in a hole OR PLACE OF REFUGE OTHER THAN A TREE....

It sounds like it was pretty easily determined that because you could see the entire tree laying there that the coon had to have gone on into the water and made a clean get away. In this case the "place of refuge other than a tree" was water. The coon ran across the tree and jumped in the water {sought refuge} to get away. This is definitely one of those "had to be there" calls, but I would give the dogs the benefit of the doubt given the above info and circle.

There's a lot more to rule 5 {a} than what I wrote...suggest you read the rest.

Last edited by msinc on 08-24-2015 at 03:24 AM

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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

A river is not a place of refuge. That is ridiculous. 4-k is the rule that applies.

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Old Post 08-24-2015 03:37 AM
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msinc
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
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quote:
Originally posted by JiM
A river is not a place of refuge. That is ridiculous. 4-k is the rule that applies.


You are correct...page 135 second edition Advisor. Endless apologies...a thousand pardons.
I don't know why it is so ridiculous though...in many states, mine being one of them, the game laws state that it is against the law to shoot any animal that has sought REFUGE in water. UKC don't see it like that though and that is all that matters.

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Old Post 08-24-2015 03:59 AM
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B Thompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 139

quote:
Originally posted by JiM

I think 4-k is the right answer. A dog handled at the tree when the cast arrives is considered treed, barking or not. .



I got this off the Advisor Q & A. How is this different from above

Nite Champion Not Opened or Treeing with Possum in Tree

Q: In a four dog Nite Champion cast, Dogs A, B and C are declared struck and treed. D has not opened. After the five is up, we go in and find all four dogs at the tree. Dog D is seen raring up on the tree and smelling but does not bark and has not been heard opening any other time. How do you score Dog D?

A: Rule 6(k) applies to this situation which states, (dogs are scratched) in Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time, including any time out periods that prior to the expiration of hunt time.

We have to key in on three verbs in this rule when determining how to score Dog D. 1) running, 2) treeing and 3) molesting. For starters we can eliminate molesting for obvious reasons. The same is true for “running” because we have not heard or seen him involved in such. Finally, we can also eliminate “treeing” because raring up and smelling is not considered “treeing” by any standards of treeing. Therefore, no harm no foul. Dog D is the only dog left in this cast and completes the remainder of the hunt by his lonesome. That’s a unique scenario that doesn’t happen very often and a good topic for this column

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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

I think you are probably right. I can't see a difference in terms of being treated as treeing or not.

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Old Post 08-24-2015 05:32 AM
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H. L. Meyer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

Nope

I do not agree with B Thompson. Now lets kee in on two other words. Nite Champion, possum. Neither of these words were use in first post. so neither apply to this situation. First post is no where close to a scratch.
I do agree with JiM 4-K, Just my opinion.

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Old Post 08-24-2015 12:25 PM
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RLenhart
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

After getting ALL the facts in that situation I would say If my dog had been there I would certainly be telling everybody about my tough luck in that hunt but would have to write it off as "that's just the crazy kind of stuff that can happen in a hunt and makes it all fun". I've seen the rule book nip me in the butt when I knew my dog didn't really do anything wrong in my eyes but iv'e also walked away grinning because I came out ahead just because of a silly twist of rules/fate LOL. Bottom line "you win some you loose some" you just have to move on and hope your luck is a little better on the next drop.

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brujan182
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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Otterbein, Indiana
Posts: 272

4-k plainly says treeing but not declared treed. Don't see how it could apply. She was not treeing. Every one there agreed she was not treeing.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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I don't understand how you could assign tree points and then minus them to a dog that everyone agreed was not treeing? I mean if she had been treed in would they not have minused her tree points for not treeing? So how could they assign her tree points for not treeing but "being at the tree" and then minus them?

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