Registered: Jun 2003
Location: waldo wi
Posts: 3221

nose on the ground
A dog tht meets you off the tree few yards and then goes back to it and trees should not be minused. Even if the dog puts his nose to the ground. Anyone tht has been hunting awhile can tell if he is running track or just going back to the tree. The ones tht wants to minuse the dogs for every little thing like tht, is the reason young people will not go to the hunts anymore. J.M.O


Hope the experienced hunter is proud as heck !!

Last edited by ronald schultz on 04-13-2015 at 04:39 AM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Jefferson,Tx
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I feel that is a dog has its nose on the ground it's considered trailing. If you determine a dog babbling because he does have his nose on the ground & his head is in the air what's the difference? If the people who judge would judge cast correctly & honest regardless if it's a world champion handler & dog or a a new born baby with a dog things would go smoother... JMO

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

UKC's position is that the dog CAN have it's nose on the ground as long as it goes pretty straight back to the tree and trees satisfactorily. I hope that you are proud of your self for giving dogs minus point they didn't deserve.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa, Mo
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ronald schultz
nose on the ground
A dog tht meets you off the tree few yards and then goes back to it and trees should not be minused. Even if the dog puts his nose to the ground. Anyone tht has been hunting awhile can tell if he is running track or just going back to the tree. The ones tht wants to minuse the dogs for every little thing like tht, is the reason young people will not go to the hunts anymore. J.M.O


Hope the experienced hunter is proud as heck !!

---

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 365

I had the lead in a hunt once and with 15 min left we cut the dogs loose and my dog tree about 50 yards from us and other dogs went on deep. With about a min left of the 5min tree rule left he came off barking With his head up straight to me and back to tree with head up barking. Got minused and lost the hunt. Ive only been in 3 hunts but rules are rules. I dont know them all and sure dont know them word for word. I THOUGHT they had to stay under the umbrella of the tree. I took my minus because Im a believer that if you bend the rule here where does it stop kind of thing. Did it suck for this to happen when everyone knows my dog was at the tree and did not leave to go back hunting just came to say come on dumby the coons over here? Yes but its the rules.

That being said without knowing the full extent of this situation I wont comment one way or another. Just remember if you start bending rules how far is too far? Its like any sport its just a game and at the end of the night if I can walk away knowing my dont out hunted tbe competition I could care less about the score. The wins will come eventually.

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that is a fine example of good sportsmanship! when you get ur wins that way you can be very proud of what you have accomplished.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa, Mo
Posts: 2066

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troy Arnold
I had the lead in a hunt once and with 15 min left we cut the dogs loose and my dog tree about 50 yards from us and other dogs went on deep. With about a min left of the 5min tree rule left he came off barking With his head up straight to me and back to tree with head up barking. Got minused and lost the hunt. Ive only been in 3 hunts but rules are rules. I dont know them all and sure dont know them word for word. I THOUGHT they had to stay under the umbrella of the tree. I took my minus because Im a believer that if you bend the rule here where does it stop kind of thing. Did it suck for this to happen when everyone knows my dog was at the tree and did not leave to go back hunting just came to say come on dumby the coons over here? Yes but its the rules.

That being said without knowing the full extent of this situation I wont comment one way or another. Just remember if you start bending rules how far is too far? Its like any sport its just a game and at the end of the night if I can walk away knowing my dont out hunted tbe competition I could care less about the score. The wins will come eventually.

---

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Registered: May 2008
Location: lenoir nc
Posts: 307

It's a shame to minus a good dog for being excited to show the owner what they have done. If the dog comes off so far you can't see the tree sure minus it but if I can see the tree and the other dogs I don't have a problem with that. It's just another handler trying all he can do to get his dog a title. They don't look at the good in the dog. I know a young man and the only way he can get any wins or attention is to try and make everyone else and their dogs look bad to make themselves and their dogs look better cause they can't do it alone. To the young fellow this happened to keep your head up and when you get drawn in a cast with folks that have common sense and honesty your hunts will be so much fun for you!

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Registered: Feb 2014
Location: ky
Posts: 93

Nose on ground minused but meets u an goes back is ok long has he ain't got nose on ground

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Registered: Apr 2006
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IT'S THE EASIEST MAN MADE FAULT THERE IS TO CORRECT. with that said, that is why I ask questions about dogs tendency's before they are ever cut.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by barbwire
Nose on ground minused but meets u an goes back is ok long has he ain't got nose on ground

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It's been stated several times by UKC that a dog that puts his nose in the ground and goes straight back to the tree SHOULDN'T be minused, but most guys in a cast look for any reason to minus someone weither it's in the rules or not.

And then everyone wonders why the attendance has dropped at the local hunts.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: cedar grove WI
Posts: 472

I've had a judge try to minus me a coon was on a limb that reached across this creek my dog was on the opposite bank of the tree she was treeing looking rite at the coon above her 10 feet away but she had her feet on saplings and he tried to minus her cause no coon was up the sapling she had her feet on

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

quote:

---

Originally posted by ronald schultz
nose on the ground
A dog tht meets you off the tree few yards and then goes back to it and trees should not be minused. Even if the dog puts his nose to the ground. Anyone tht has been hunting awhile can tell if he is running track or just going back to the tree. The ones tht wants to minuse the dogs for every little thing like tht, is the reason young people will not go to the hunts anymore. J.M.O


Hope the experienced hunter is proud as heck !!

---

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

quote:

---

Originally posted by ronald schultz
nose on the ground
A dog tht meets you off the tree few yards and then goes back to it and trees should not be minused. Even if the dog puts his nose to the ground. Anyone tht has been hunting awhile can tell if he is running track or just going back to the tree. The ones tht wants to minuse the dogs for every little thing like tht, is the reason young people will not go to the hunts anymore. J.M.O


Hope the experienced hunter is proud as heck !!

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7068

quote:

---

Originally posted by T Felderman
Did he question the judges call?

---

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

I totally agree with Mr Shultz, Bill(CHEW), Slowpoke, etc. but we live and hunt in the real world and in that real world, a dog will get minused every time it meets and greets if it is winning the cast and about half the time if it isn't.
As John D suggests, it would be far better to emphasize to these youngsters that they correct this fault ( and it is absolutely a fault even though UKC allows it) and avoid the whole situation right up front.

It is so simple. About half the pups I've worked with did it including the Psycho pup I'm working right now. They are so excited to see you after treeing that coon they just gotta run up and meet you with that big grin. About the third time I grabbed her up and spanked her back on that tree was the last time she met me. She is now rock solid on that tree with or without a coon.

I hate arguing with a judge. I hate when the kids handling my dog argue with the judge. Question on the card are to be avoided as much as possible. The meet and greet puts as many questions on a card as anything. Really no reason for that. The judges should judge it the way UKC tells us to and the handler should eliminate the fault in the first place.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ronald schultz
nose on the ground
A dog tht meets you off the tree few yards and then goes back to it and trees should not be minused. Even if the dog puts his nose to the ground. Anyone tht has been hunting awhile can tell if he is running track or just going back to the tree. The ones tht wants to minuse the dogs for every little thing like tht, is the reason young people will not go to the hunts anymore. J.M.O


Hope the experienced hunter is proud as heck !!

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troy Arnold
I had the lead in a hunt once and with 15 min left we cut the dogs loose and my dog tree about 50 yards from us and other dogs went on deep. With about a min left of the 5min tree rule left he came off barking With his head up straight to me and back to tree with head up barking. Got minused and lost the hunt. Ive only been in 3 hunts but rules are rules. I dont know them all and sure dont know them word for word. I THOUGHT they had to stay under the umbrella of the tree. I took my minus because Im a believer that if you bend the rule here where does it stop kind of thing. Did it suck for this to happen when everyone knows my dog was at the tree and did not leave to go back hunting just came to say come on dumby the coons over here? Yes but its the rules.

That being said without knowing the full extent of this situation I wont comment one way or another. Just remember if you start bending rules how far is too far? Its like any sport its just a game and at the end of the night if I can walk away knowing my dont out hunted tbe competition I could care less about the score. The wins will come eventually.

---

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Mt. Etna, Indiana
Posts: 152

the unfortunate part about it for me is, 99% of hunters know that dog was focused on the tree. A dog can be treed, hop off the tree and run 5 or 10 feet in circles while barking the entire time. 99% of the time a dog does that is excitement.

A few rules like this are what keep me from being a die hard comp hunter. I could almost see it steering me away from the honest reasons i love to hunt.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

Points will be plus: When dogs strike and tree and coon is seen...................................
No canopy
no nose on the ground
no distance reference
no faults mentioned

Points will be minus: When a dog that has been declared treed and dog leaves tree.....................................
no canopy
no nose on the ground
no distance mentioned
no faults mentioned
These are the rules in their simplest forms, So if UKC doesn't explain what "leaves the tree" is, then you are at the mercy of the judge and cast. If you don't agree, next time spend that 20 bucks some place else.

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Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 24

I BELIVE THE WAY IT USED TO REAd (aint been in ukc hunt in 15 yrs) dogs are allowed to greet their handler a short distance off the tree as long as dog returns to tree and trees satisfactorily..minusing for short distance off tree pretty sad.we all know whos showin tree weather toenails dug in wood or not.i could have legitimately minused a dog in pkc state semis would have got me in finals.it was a rule INTERPRETATION call and i felt he shouldnt be minused that young man still huntin today 20 yrs later.lets stop findin holes in rules promote the sport with the kids minus your OWN dog if it deserves it and others will learn by example.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

So we say they can greet, and we say its ok to have their nose on the ground, If they bark while off the tree is that ok?if they open away from the tree with their nose on the ground is that ok to? suppose they stop to take a leak,is that ok? What if they greet and jump up on the handler for a pat on the head? How far is to far, 50 feet, 50 yards?
Its all subjective guys, the best you can hope for is an honest judge or better yet teach the dog not to do it.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

Does this young man play sports? If so I would certainly think he has seen a bad call by a ref, umpire, judge. Did this run him away from playing sports? Its a fact of life and happens in everything you go to do. Lets hope he learns to prepare his dog and hone his handling skills and learns not to be a quitter just because something unfair happens. My question is what did him being 17 have to do with anything? If it was a bad call it was a bad call regardless of age of handler. I dont want anyone giving my 16 year old son a break just because he is 16, he needs to learn the rules, prepare his dog just like everybody else. Some of my bad breaks have been the best teachers I ever had!

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: WV
Posts: 394

There is a lot of rules that are in the "gray" area, so to speak, that can be pushed or pulled to make them suit someone. Seems they really get manipulated when it comes to winning or losing. It just baffles me that a grown man would cheat someone over a $3 trophy and a slip of paper.

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