Registered: Nov 2014
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Helping my son train a 5 month old pup. I got out of coon hunting years ago and just now getting back in it for my son. I've had some seasoned coon hunters argue you should never let a pup tree a squirrel and others say it's absolutely the best thing to do. Curious what the opinions on this are? Back when I was coon hunting we always had a trained dog to get pups started. I never messed with squirrels with them. But we live in an area now where we don't have a high population of coon.

I took his pup out yesterday and she ran and treed a squirrel in a nest just before dark. She chopped on it good for a bit for a young pup. I didn't praise her or get onto her or anything. I just let her do her thing and then went on. I know y'all all have an opinion on this so let me have em.

Last edited by Dan L on 03-06-2015 at 05:23 PM

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Registered: Feb 2012
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it's up to you but i don't want no parts of it.

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: tylertown,mississippi
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I wouldn't mind a 5 month old pup that treed one while running loose during the day and I was around so when I heard her treed I could go to her, pet her a little then go put her up. I wouldn't want one to burn herself out by being treed to long if I wasn't there or go to treeing one after another every time I let her loose unless you and your son enjoy squirrel hunting. If your in an area with few coons put out a bucket feeder down by a creek and keep it full of corn or dog feed. That will get the coons to coming regular as your pup grows up and gets a little more age and maturity on her. Once a week take her out after dark down near the feeder and when she's ready to start she will strike one of these hot coon tracks one night and you will be on your way to having a coonhound one day. If your son likes her treeing squirrels then that's all that matters, have fun and congrats on getting back in it. Nothing better than watching a boy and a pup grow up together. Good Luck!

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51 views and only 2 people have an opinion on if it's good or bad to let a young pup start out treeing squirrels?

Thanks Steve. Have one bucket feeder on the creek below the house now and two more built and ready to go up this weekend on my other property.

I was just curious what people thought about their young pups treeing squirrels. I have heard guys who were really good coon hunters with really good dogs who swear it's a great way to start a pup and then other good coon hunters with good dogs emphatically say don't do it. Was just curious what the feelings were.

Last edited by Dan L on 03-04-2015 at 03:47 AM

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: macon, ga
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Gr Nt Ch Boyd's Blue Jack was a squirrel dog with Richard Boyd's father until Richard began hunting him at night. He marched straight through the hunts with him. When they start I do not care if it is a mouse, rat, squirrel, possum-if it will climb and they have DESIRE. Your responsibility is to steer them onto the game you wish them to concentrate on. After all our dogs are used on Bobcats, Bear and Mountain Lions. If a pup's inherent nature is to tree, not by sight but to trail and catch-the only reason he trees is because he cannot climb the tree and close with his quarry. Did you ever think about that? Did you ever have one get to a fence that he could not go any further? What happened? How about a dog when it first encounters water it will not cross? Ever have one sit down and tree right there? Food for thought. If he will tree a squirrel, he will tree a coon.

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Good stuff CW. You sound exactly like my Dad. Haha. I know several old time coon hunters (my Dad included) who started their pups with feral tom cats. He would always say if he'll tree a cat he'll tree a coon. I always worried that might make them more likely to tree bobcats, but like you say you ultimately have to influence them to what you want them to tree.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
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I think it depends more on the individual dog. I've seen some who were started on coon get to treeing some squirrels at night, mainly on moonlit nights. I've witnessed dogs started on squirrels loose all interest in them after they started treeing coon. I've also witnessed dogs that treed squirrels through the day, and tree nothing but coon or possums after dark.

As has already been mentioned, it is always great to see the treeing instinct bubble out. It is all in the owners hands from that point on.

I also believe some dogs are born with a natural preference for a coon, and will show little to no interest in other game. Those are more the exception than the rule in my limited experience.

Best of luck to you and your son with your young dog! I hope it makes a keeper for you and provides years worth of great memories!

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First of all, when we think about training a dog (pup), we seem to think that we have a lot to do with it. Not so much true! All we, as handlers, do is the man made things, leading, loading, commands, taking them to the woods, etc... Everything else is up to the dog. We can't train them to tree or track or hunt or open on track or how fast to run a tract or how hard to tree, these things are all up to the hound. I've followed dogs for months and never saw them tree up a tree with other dogs or even show interest in a coon! I used to have an old cat that started many young hounds for me, right in my yard. I would have no problem with a pup treeing a squirrel. Only thing you might watch is if it is treeing by sight or scent. We want to concentrate on scent. Our dogs usually start running any scent they smell when they first start, that's why we buy shockers LOL! Natural ability is what you are looking for and it sounds like your young hound has it. Good luck and I hope you and your son have many enjoyable nights in the woods.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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I've used house cats to train pups. Never had much trouble with them in the swamps where I hunt. But one night a lady broke two young dogs for me on her back porch with a broom. LOL

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: glenallen
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Wen I was a kid I got a blue tick female pup for my 8 year old birthday wen she got big snuff to go hunting I took her I hunted almost everyday day I would take her she got to treeing squirrels for me I would take my single shot 22 and shoot. Them out she could tree you a sack full by the time she was a year old I started taking her to corn field at night and she got to were she could flat get under a coon she was probly the most accurate dog IV ever Ben in the woods with I always train my young dogs to suit me I'm the one that feeds them and I don't. Care what others think about them my opinion you and your boy enjoy your dog train it up the way youns like it if your boy are you like to hunt in daylight on squirrels than go for it. The one thing I do now with my young dogs running loose here on the farm wen they tree me ar my son goes to them to see what they have well IV rambled on long snuff enjoy your time with your hound and your boy

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quote:

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Originally posted by cwbluebio
Gr Nt Ch Boyd's Blue Jack was a squirrel dog with Richard Boyd's father until Richard began hunting him at night. He marched straight through the hunts with him. When they start I do not care if it is a mouse, rat, squirrel, possum-if it will climb and they have DESIRE. Your responsibility is to steer them onto the game you wish them to concentrate on. After all our dogs are used on Bobcats, Bear and Mountain Lions. If a pup's inherent nature is to tree, not by sight but to trail and catch-the only reason he trees is because he cannot climb the tree and close with his quarry. Did you ever think about that? Did you ever have one get to a fence that he could not go any further? What happened? How about a dog when it first encounters water it will not cross? Ever have one sit down and tree right there? Food for thought. If he will tree a squirrel, he will tree a coon.

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I think what I take away from all the comments is "there's more than one way to skin a cat...and more than one way to train a coon dog pup." And no one way is necessarily right.

Well I introduced her to a coon I caught yesterday. She definitely hates a coon. She went at him full bore for a long time. That's the only caged coon she'll see though. I may trap some for her to run hot now but she will not see any more in a cage. She knows what I want her to tree now she's got to do it. I don't think treeing squirrels in the day would phase this pup at all from running coons at night, but I could be wrong. I'm still going to hunt her mostly at night, but if the opportunity presents to take her in the day I think it's better to get her in the woods than in the kennel.

Last edited by Dan L on 03-05-2015 at 06:54 PM

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Thanks to all who have responded.

CW and others mention the desire and the drive and this pup has so much desire and drive to hunt. She wants to hunt more than any pup I've ever owned...BUT....there's always a BUT...

this pup does not seem to be able to run even a hot track very well right now. I'm not sure if that is an ability (nose) issue or just the fact she is a 5 month old pup and needs practice? I know she has tried to run this coon when I turned it loose and has also tried to run a hot track of a house cat out of the yard, and just did not seem to be at all good on the track in either case. She did trail and open both times, but never worked out either track. Interested in opinions on that. Is it common for young pups to struggle running a hot track in this manner or is that a sign of a poor nose? Again, I've trained a number of pups, but always with an older dog so this is new ground for me.

And a final question....for now anyway..haha...

With hide season going out...do you think it does damage to a young pup to get her treeing but have to pull her off... not be able (legally) to shoot the coon out? What's better...hunt her between now and next hide season and get her treeing without being able to shoot the coon out...or wait until next hide season to hunt her? I'm not trying to incriminate myself or anyone with this question either...haha so venture into the gray area between these two options of your own volition!

Last edited by Dan L on 03-06-2015 at 05:35 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
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I would. Squirrel hunt the pup that would help it on tracking and you will be able to role them out soon

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"Is it common for young pups to struggle running a hot track in this manner or is that a sign of a poor nose? Again, I've trained a number of pups, but always with an older dog so this is new ground for me."

1st question: IMO, a pup loses interest in trailing that’s why they sometimes stop and come back or it appears that they lost the track. Give them some time to grow a little, 5 months is very young.

2nd question: IMO if a dog is born to tree it will do just that. If they don't have a lot of tree in them you may have some problems. I've owned some dogs from the Jet line that you could break them from everything but treeing. I mean you could even shock them right off of the tree and they would go on to the next tree like nothing even happened. Not saying I recommend shocking a dog on the tree, (trying to break off possums). When a dog is very young they're very vulnerable to many things so you should be careful but if it is from a strong line of tree stickers, chances are they will be the same. A true beagle will run for ever without getting any fur in their mouths, why, because that’s what they're bred for and they love to do it. A coon hound is just the same. This is my opinion on these questions and any other opinions are welcomed. I'm not always right, as a matter of fact, I was wrong once but then I found out that I was mistaken LOL! Hope everyone has a great day, can't wait to start my pups.

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Thanks Ron and Drummer. I guess the thing that worries me is it surely does not look like she is losing interest. It looks like she wants to go with it very bad, but just can't. Like you said though time will tell. I surely would not give up on a 5 mo pup. I'm not as patient as some though. I think if a pup has much potential of being a real coon dog then they outta be treeing good at 1 year old. I know there's no hard a fast rule, and know all about the late bloomers (have owned some myself) but like I said I'm not that patient.

This pup has Jet 6 blood on the bottom side. She sure has grit and gumption for a 5 month old. I like her a lot. Hoping for the best on track ability though.

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Registered: Oct 2010
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I don't use squirrels when I train but I no of a few ppl that do and one man has trained some realy nice hounds that way.i always say wat works for you might not work for me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dan'L
Thanks Ron and Drummer. I guess the thing that worries me is it surely does not look like she is losing interest. It looks like she wants to go with it very bad, but just can't. Like you said though time will tell. I surely would not give up on a 5 mo pup. I'm not as patient as some though. I think if a pup has much potential of being a real coon dog then they outta be treeing good at 1 year old. I know there's no hard a fast rule, and know all about the late bloomers (have owned some myself) but like I said I'm not that patient.

This pup has Jet 6 blood on the bottom side. She sure has grit and gumption for a 5 month old. I like her a lot. Hoping for the best on track ability though.

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Registered: Nov 2014
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I would love to let her run loose and do when I'm there. With where we live I'm not really too concerned about her getting in a road, but am concerned about her getting picked up by other hunters.

My son had a B&T pup he was working with previously. Beautiful dog but did not suit me at all. Someone picked him up. I was secretly glad. Dog was beginning to tree but was too shy and was not blue...haha

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

I don't believe squirrels are no where near the problem some people have them cracked up to be. I have never seen a dog that was worked on squirrels develop any "squirrel related" problems either. I don't use them because we have a few coons around, but I don't see it as an issue.
There was an old book about coon hunting written way on "back in the day." In this book the author talks about how he liked to start his dogs off on squirrels. He goes on to say that it causes no problems and that when you do start hunting the dog at night and he gets going on coons good that he will not worry about squirrels.
Personally, I don't believe squirrels move much at night anyways. I also do not believe all these guys dogs are messing with squirrels that are claimed to. What I see are dogs that run junk and pull up slick to avoid "disciplinary action." Best of luck and good hunting.

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quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
I don't believe squirrels are no where near the problem some people have them cracked up to be. I have never seen a dog that was worked on squirrels develop any "squirrel related" problems either. I don't use them because we have a few coons around, but I don't see it as an issue.
There was an old book about coon hunting written way on "back in the day." In this book the author talks about how he liked to start his dogs off on squirrels. He goes on to say that it causes no problems and that when you do start hunting the dog at night and he gets going on coons good that he will not worry about squirrels.
Personally, I don't believe squirrels move much at night anyways. I also do not believe all these guys dogs are messing with squirrels that are claimed to. What I see are dogs that run junk and pull up slick to avoid "disciplinary action." Best of luck and good hunting.

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Pam, sounds like you've had some bad personal experiences with this. How many dogs have you seen this be a problem for?

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
if you have coonhounds long enough and have enough different hounds and are honest about what your dog trees some day you will learn better till then count yourself lucky it hasn't been a problem for you! unless you don't mind more slicks then me.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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well i will try to explain what i think on this subject which im not that good at typing it out.
i have had this problem with a few and seen many more. many of which the owner has no idea what there dog is doing. now dogs that will tree squirrels will tree coon easy. but some coon dogs wont tree squirrels regularly i guess they don't prefer squirrels as much or whatever the reason. some nites it's not a prob some nites it is why idk. yet other dogs aren't a prob by there self but put them with one that will it's another story. my area has alot of flying squirrel some nites i can see half dozen or more in a 2 hr hunt. dogs see them as well so guess what happens. other times i have went to trees with chewings all around it with a short track and a slick tree. gray's idk but i have a good idea it's squirrel. i find some dogs break off them easy some don't just like any other trash.

i do agree with msinc that many dogs will tree up on slicks to get out off trouble for running fast game often as well. yet others switch over to coon to get out of trouble. some are straight cooners. how many though?

why wouldn't they tree squirrels at nite?
same answer for both questions? i think so! jmo!

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

That is a good question!!!! The "million dollar" one, in fact. Who knows what makes dogs do the things they do??? I will say that when you see those stupid little flying squirrels and have that many of them, it would seem like whether you "train" a dog with squirrels or not, they are going to have trouble with them. Especially under those circumstances. We do have flying squirrels around here but not very many...thank god!!! I know exactly what you mean when you say the dogs see them. I have had those things "fly" over to a tree right next to where the dogs are working and sit on the trunk just out of reach and make that high pitched squeak noise. Drives any normal dog nuts, especially young ones. It seems like they wait until the dogs are looking right at them to glide away. The noise a flying squirrel makes is so high pitched that most people don't even hear it, but you can believe dogs hear it a long ways away. I really don't know if there is a solution. I guess go through the motions of breaking them just like any other junk. Problem is you don't know when they are starting to mess with them or coons.

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