Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

,Anybody ever hear of this term? Especially as it relates to competition coon hunting? I'm thinking this term was included in the original bylaws of registries that sanctioned competition coon hunting events, more than 70 years ago.

What does the rules of fair chase mean to you the (A) competition hunter, and (B) the pleasure hunter??

It seems to me that these rules were written by the Founding Fathers of Competition Coon Hunting.

I'm of the opinion that these rules were providing an outline as to how a dog was to give a (SPORTING CHANCE) to a coon that a dog was trying to catch.

How was a dog supposed to do that you may ask??
(Answer)- By opening on the trail so that the coon had a sporting chance to get away.

Do you consider yourself a sportsman of coon hunting or a slayer of coon??

You can slaughter more coon if you hunt them with a silent trailing dog, anybody that has hunted for ten years or more already know that, but is that the (SPORTING) thing to do??

Are you a coon hunter that enjoys the SPORT of coon hunting, and listening to a hound that tells the coon it is on its trail, and still has the ability to run that coon so hard it has to climb a tree, or are you a coon hunter that enjoys the harvest of many, many coon, and it does not matter to you how the dog gets the job done, so long as the bottom line is, there is a coon up that tree when you get there.

Why all these stupid questions you may ask?? Well it is my opinion that where you stand as a coon hunter may actually tells us where you stand within the tolerance of the UKC rules that apply to the silent trailing hound.

Some on this forum want to eliminate strike points, and give every dog that shows up at an event 50 points for having the luxury to free cast your dog, every time you free cast your dog. Some feel that any dog that open on one out of 5 tracks is not SILENT, But maybe a little tight on the ground.

I feel the (Rules of Fair Chase) are as important to the integrity of competition coon hunting, as the 2nd amendment is to those of us that feel it is our constitutional right to own a firearm and have it in our home. Our country was founded on the basic principles of the 2nd amendment and nobody should be messing with that language, Just as the Rules of Fair Chase were written by our founding fathers of competition coon hunting, and they should be sacred as well. If you don't want to play by the rules of our founding fathers, and especially a rule that is punishable by scratch, you should maybe look else ware for an organization that more so meets your values.

I like a coon treeing machine as much as the next guy, but there real challenge is to breed one that is open on the ground and still has the ability to put a high percentage of tracks on the outside of the tree for all to see!!

Good Hunting to All!!

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

ROCKET fair chase is giving a coon a chance! what I mean is you have people that is out hunting and there dog will tree and they will shoot out every thing within a 100 yrd circle of the tree. and say there dog tr, it. or spot lite all around the fields and shoot out and say there dog tr it. or walking in the woods and spot lite and shoot out.say there dog treed it. and tell how many they treed last nt. on and on. where is the fair chase. fairness is hunt a coon dog of your choice! and keep lites out tree until you look up the tree the dog is on.that is one version of fair chase. the silent dog thing he beats me he better be good! or I will evaluate what I am hunting! my fingers hurt. and wish some one would kill some of these opossum. LOL !jmo

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Last edited by CHEWBACH on 01-02-2015 at 11:58 PM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location:
Posts: 856

I do not think folks should be entering silent dogs in hunts even though I have one but I can see this issue is way closer to your heart than most anyone else!
You must have gotten rimwrecked by a silent dog a few times. Its ok, I have seen it happen to lots of folks.
Since when did the competition committee decide what was fair and what wasn't, or you for that matter? I would not make this statement if you were solely talking about nite hunts, but your post goes all over the place to include pleasure hunting too.
I agree with CHEWBACH!

Last edited by garminguru on 01-02-2015 at 06:31 PM

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

I agree with you Dave on the whole fair chase aspect but that don't change what a coondog is.I think the rules are a little backwards in the night hunts but that's just me.Im a pleasure hunter and a coondog does not get rewarded for barking as soon as they hit the woods in my world.I have been in a few night hunts and this has happened the majority of the time.Problem is you can't prove there running a deer,squirrel,rabbit,or mouse unless you see it.Ive seen us cut the dogs lose and a dog is clearly running and barking at the other dogs.Also seen dogs strike and run that track thru 3 blocks of woods and across roads.They still got there 100+ For running a deer.How is that fair Dave?I like a honest coondog and like to see them get credit where it's due.These automatic striken trash runners are not coondogs but they sure get there titles some how.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Who were these founding fathers and where are these rules of fair chase written? Lol.
In reality the vast majority of coonhunters a hundred years ago followed silent trailing dogs, the objective was to put food on the table as efficently as possible.
All the registries reward the open trailer with strike points which give them the advantage, that in itself prevents people for the most part from competing with a silent dog. $kc. has no rule against competing with a silent dog and they are still rare.
Personally i have always felt that anyone with a dog and an entry fee should be able to show up and compete, after all at its heart its a coon treeing contest so turn em loose and let the chips fall where they may.
All the silent dog rule does is controll the "style" of dog a man hunts, which is redundent because the point system already does this.
The strike point system as it is now doesnt any longer reward the harder hunting dog as it was intended because guys have bred up dogs that open when they smell dirt so how valuable should those points be? And if its OK to eliminate the silent dog shouldnt it also be acceptable to eliminate the loose mouth dog by removing their reward.
Strike em all for 50 and the babblers would dissapear pretty quick because they sure are annoying to be in the woods with.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Lumberport Wv
Posts: 67

If its not considered fair chase having a silent hound how can it be considered fair chase to run on feeder buckets?

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: millfield,Ohio
Posts: 14

Does all this really mater if the dog is silent or open they both still have to find a coon track. So if you have a coondog that barks openly on a track as long as it hunts off the lead strap who cares if the other dogs fall treed without a track bark. Last i checked first strike was a 100-points if u have a coon dog it will get treed first also. So if u are worried about being beat by a silent dog u might want to evaluate what u are calling a coon dog it might be a average pott licker

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by biggins80
Does all this really mater if the dog is silent or open they both still have to find a coon track. So if you have a coondog that barks openly on a track as long as it hunts off the lead strap who cares if the other dogs fall treed without a track bark. Last i checked first strike was a 100-points if u have a coon dog it will get treed first also. So if u are worried about being beat by a silent dog u might want to evaluate what u are calling a coon dog it might be a average pott licker

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Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Limestone TN
Posts: 74

quote:

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Originally posted by Joebatdoublee
If its not considered fair chase having a silent hound how can it be considered fair chase to run on feeder buckets?

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

I have been in a few hunts in my life time! but the babbling idiots out number the silent dog by a really wide margin. and take junk across country like a rocket and stumble across a coon and tree it. now that is giving a coon a fair chance. I don't own a silent dog but I have had a few of all kinds. if we all had same type dog we would"nt have any thing to disagree on. jmo

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

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Originally posted by biggins80
Does all this really mater if the dog is silent or open they both still have to find a coon track. So if you have a coondog that barks openly on a track as long as it hunts off the lead strap who cares if the other dogs fall treed without a track bark. Last i checked first strike was a 100-points if u have a coon dog it will get treed first also. So if u are worried about being beat by a silent dog u might want to evaluate what u are calling a coon dog it might be a average pott licker

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Lumberport Wv
Posts: 67

And still no answer to the feeder bucket question. I don't own a silent hound but I have in the past and I have seen a open dog smoke him and I seen him smoke open dogs. But if your going to use the fair chase argument then a dog should have to hunt for it and not turned out on a feeder. It ought to be run what you got and best hound at the end of the night wins. It's supposed to be about who has the best hound not who has the best babbler or slick treeing idiot. Oh and I don't run feeders either if it can't find its own coon it's a cull!!

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

Us bluetick guys usually tie one foot to our dogs side and put a 20 lb weight around there collar. Then MAYBE the coon has a fair chance. lol

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: IL.
Posts: 477

So you want fair chase better stop ambushing those deer out of deer stands and ground blinds ,that aint fair jmo

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

why worry about the other mans dog? if you can't beat them get a better dog or just simply enjoy the dog you owned.

i don't care for silent or babbleing dogs myself but i never felt like they had a advantage against a good honest dog either.

who hunts that dog the rest of the week?

clearly someone is asking themself the wrong questions.

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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4545

quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
A silent dog will sneak up on an unsuspecting coon and pop it up the closest tree, which by the way is just about NEVER a hollow. He gets 99.9% guaranteed plus points. The open trailer lets the coon know long before he gets there in most cases that he's heading that way so the coon has time to get back to a den should he choose. I am not worried about getting beat by a silent dog because I scratch them.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Ok back when I started there was just pretty much ukc we hunted 4 hrs then 3 hrs hunts you had to stay off those minus points now because of several different registries you have several sets of rules some rewarding a ( quick strike dog ) and a dog may or may not be rewarded for not treeing a coon but they still want that ukc Grntch title I know it still means alot to me so if a dog beats me As long as staying. Within the boundrys of the rules ain't nothing I can do but take it like. A man and go to the next hunt ( nobody likes a crybaby !!!!! )

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

I know he ain't telling a fib .... BECAUSE ...... when we went hunting with him last week and he heard I was hunting a black & tan dog he made me put a 25lb weight around my dog's collar so them bluetick and coons both would stand a fair chance. Now that is what I call ....FAIR CHASE .....he,he

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
So you eliminate the 99.9% Coon tree'r, you must be worried about that dog beating you or you wouldn't scratch them ?
That's funny stuff, let me see a man packing a dog like that and putting a butt whipping on the rest of the cast ( including me ) and I will shake that man's hand any night.

It's about treeing Coon to me.........

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

The 25 pound weight around there neck is to keep there back feet off the ground so they don't kick dirt in my dogs face ( what's a blue tick ).!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: kenton,ohio
Posts: 184

What about these little barking idiot sound like ur neighbors poodle barking all over the woods 1st strike dogs and backing the dog that gets 1st tree is that honest, and if u turn those kind loose in woods alone all u do is hear a whole lot of yaking till u get a headache , and can't tree a coon . I don't believe in hunting off feeders niether, might as well get all dogs out and turn them loose on a box trap coon , no hunting to it .. Guess we might have to get us a few poodles.. And yes I have open dogs and 1 silent dog and he is all hound and sounds like a hound ,,

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Let me throw just a little more gasoline on this fire, LOL. Being silent on trail has always been since the inception of competition coon hunting, a scratchable offense, (thus meaning) dogs that show this trait should be culled.

This also hold true for a dog that wants to fight at the tree. It has always been, and should always be, a scratchable offense. Dogs that want to fight at the tree should be scratched as well, and not included in ANY breeding program.

The same for any man that wants to argue and raise H@ll all night long, always have, and should always be, "scratched."

You see a dog that is loose mouthed gets punished, "to the fullest extent" of the UKC rules, (every) week in competition hunts, but a silent dog gets punished less than 10% of the time in competition hunts.

Babbling is punishable by minus, silent is punishable by scratch, so it seems to me from the way the rules were originally written, (and are still this way today) being silent, is the bigger fault than babbling, and therefore should be punished every time that trait rises up in competition.

My point is this, Please stop breeding for silent trailing coon catchers, as its making it harder and harder for me to find a balanced hound to breed my pot lickers to.

Now have at it boys and girls, you now know where I stand!!

Oh and by the way, I do have pretty thick skin, so I won't take to much of what you say to me or about me to heart. After all were all just a bunch of bored coon hunters, and this makes for good conversation.

Having said that, by late march, Im hoping my ole knee is good enough to keep up with some of you, so when the weather gets a little more consistently nice, you are welcome to bring Ole silent over and show me why you think I'm a little off my rocker, LOL

Good Hunting Guys and Gals!!

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

good morn dave! went hunting last nt. just got out bed. DAM! I love this retirement.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Do people realize that most coons are not run up a tree? They are trailed to the tree they were already in when the dog struck the track. With the exception of a red hot race or a pop up.

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