Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
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New Telemetry rules state:

A Master of Hounds /Panel may not consider any debate based on telemetry use.

It has come to my attention from other MOH's that because of the use of the word...... "ANY" ....... if a person were to be using an
Alpha(which is scratch and write up for handler misconduct)
during the hunt or say tree a dog off their Garmin.
They cannot and will not as the above sentence is written even listen to a complaint involving Garmin usage .Or write up someone on the complaint that they used an Alpha during the hunt.

I was actually told that someone at UKC confirmed this.

It was my understanding the sentence meant debates/arguments on scoring situations on calling a dog or treeing off the use of a Garmin.

Please verify what is correct to myself and all of The other MOH that use this board.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 03-16-2014 at 09:01 PM

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Your understanding is the right one Pat

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If you get caught using an Alpha, you get scratched and I'm betting any MOH who refuses uphold that scratch won't be an MOH very long.

As for the rest of it, if someone uses information gleaned from Garmin use as part of their argument to the MOH, the MOH should simply ignore the information from that Garmin use. Is that really so difficult to understand?

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Use a alpha in a cast in the woods and there scratched. Simple. The alpha cannot be carried in the woods and cannot be used until there is a timeout. No other garmin rule will get you scratched. Garmins cannot be used to minus a dog. Would be wise ideal for the judge to see what each handler is using before cast starts.

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"A Master of Hounds /Panel may not consider any debate based on telemetry use"

This is on the yellow paper that the MOH/HD reads before each and every hunt. Everyone is stating the use of an alpha.. what about anything else? What debate will not be heard? Garmins making noise? ( alerts to treeing) Calling your dog off of your Garmin? If you can't be scratched for these things, Who will try it? and Can the MOH hear the reason the dog was scratched? Rule 17 states "Locating device can be used during the hunt but only under the strict provisions outlined in the current locating device rules. " That is the yellow paper they read.
So, if the ONLY reason you can be scratched is the Alpha.... Why the other rules? That rule could be interpetated several different ways. I have also heard it opens a can of worms and allows the judge more control; to scratch someone... and the paper states the debate cannot be heard. I also would like to hear what the official ruling on the debate issue is... Sounds like there is a pretty gray area....I have been to 9 hunts this year and there are as many interpetations on this rule as there is people that reads it....
I do believe JiM from Indiana has come as close to what most people say the rule means.. The Garmin can be a reason to be scratched but not for an argument in defense of not being scratched as the MOH can't hear the debate Pros or Cons....

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Last edited by harleydan1956 on 03-17-2014 at 03:23 AM

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Yea . how can you let the garmin be used and than scratch anyone for using them? That sounds silly. Use a alpha will be scratched if im in the cast. 320 and 220 can be used in the woods during hunt time and left on. And can be used when u want to determine where your dog is. Judge don't and should not be allowed to determine when you use it. Stand there with it in your hand the entire cast. Who cares.

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The way our moh read it to us is the alpha cannot be used unless u scratch your dog or the hunt time is over. i would like to know ukcs official ruling on it. The rule can be interpreted to many ways.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by kenney Clark
Yea . how can you let the garmin be used and than scratch anyone for using them? That sounds silly. Use a alpha will be scratched if im in the cast. 320 and 220 can be used in the woods during hunt time and left on. And can be used when u want to determine where your dog is. Judge don't and should not be allowed to determine when you use it. Stand there with it in your hand the entire cast. Who cares.

---

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I say simple solution turn the things off just like we have for years I've only entered 1 hunt this year and had to stand and listen to guys the whole cast 400 yds then another guy mine 380 the whole night

UKC please put the rule back the way it was this is just gonna cause more problems

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quote:

---

Originally posted by harleydan1956
Kenny, You are 100% right... Scratch if using the Alpha... I understand where you are coming from, BUT on the 220 and 320... what about tree alarms? They are to be shut off... if you don't? How many times do you get a warning? or if someone trees off the alarm? Or someone trees off someone else's alarm? Stupid, maybe.. but people will use them for whatever advantage they can.
if the judge should not be allowed to determine when and when not to use it.. Then WHY the rest of the rules pertaining to it's use? WHO else will Govern the cast???

---

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Josh Davidson
[B]I say simple solution turn the things off just like we have for years I've only entered 1 hunt this year and had to stand and listen to guys the whole cast 400 yds then another guy mine 380 the whole night

Thing with that josh. If they won't shut up a good judge will ask them to quit rambling on about how far there dog is. No one cares. Unless its in danger. It would fall under intefering with cast members to hear there dog. Warn them to zip it.

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Or how about this. You can have them on and alerts silenced but holstered till all dogs are struck and treed. Gives you an idea on what dog to go to first to score the tree to make things speed up a little.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
If you get caught using an Alpha, you get scratched and I'm betting any MOH who refuses uphold that scratch won't be an MOH very long.

As for the rest of it, if someone uses information gleaned from Garmin use as part of their argument to the MOH, the MOH should simply ignore the information from that Garmin use. Is that really so difficult to understand?

---

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
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NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 03-17-2014 at 04:41 PM

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I would love for my cast contestants to tree their dog off the treed alert.

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is the alpha no to be used because of the shocking ability if so that makes sense. I don't care if they use the other type cause if you can't here the dog it can't be struck nor treed anyway.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by roy mac
is the alpha no to be used because of the shocking ability if so that makes sense. I don't care if they use the other type cause if you can't here the dog it can't be struck nor treed anyway.

---

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I don't have a garmin as of yet. So if it can tell you your dog is treed than why can it be used?

So can you now carry the beep-beep systems?

My question is if a dog is out of hearing and the garmin says walk this way and you can't hear the dog isn't that influencing the scoring of a dog if you walk that way? I recall we use to go to the last place we heard the dog if they split up. Then start the 8.

The rule is for a dog in danger correct? So if I cant hear the dog and garmin says this way... do we stay put because if it is "dangerous" we still can call time out and try to catch the dogs ?

Maybe I'm all messed up. I'm still confused on this. Hopefully it will show up in the advisor soon since I am a MOH

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Yep.. this rule has opened a can of worms..

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quote:

---

Originally posted by harleydan1956
Yep.. this rule has opened a can of worms..

---

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Some people can make something out of nothing,u can't use the alpha while it's hunting time,unless scratched or done.u can use garmin in hunts,and if u own a garmin u no that it can tell u your dog is treed plenty of times when it checking trees or whatever and it's not realy treed.so if people want to tree their dog off that,I don't realy care.when I hunt the hunts I turn the volume off and check it from time to time if I can't hear the dogs.never helpd me win a hunt.i just wouldn't even use a alpha in the hunts,just causes problems.i think the moh or judge should check to make sure the dogs only have the trackers on and not the alpha shockers

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Come on guys, some of you are making something out of nothing. The rules are not that hard to follow. Thats why no one from UKC has responded to this post. This thing has been hashed over with a fine tooth comb. It can't be any simpler.

Let me explain.

If you own a Astro 220 or 320. It can be turned on during the hunt. At no time can the garmin be used in a scoring situation. Be it Plus, Minus or Delete. You can look at it anytime. A dog can not be called treed off the garmin, just because it shows him treed. The dog must be heard TREEING, in order to be put on the paper.

Now it you own an ALPHA, it can be carried but it must have the battery removed. This make it Fully Disabled. The reason for this is because of the shocking system on the ALPHA. The tone feature could cause anyones dog to come in if they hear the tone.

The judge has the right to see anyones APLHA at any time to insure it is off and the battery is out.

UKC has made it this way so that During a timeout it can be used to locate your dog. Not just when you are scratched or the hunt being over.

For those who don't own a garmin. Yes you can carry in the woods and it can be turned owned. Before I had a garmin. I had marshall. I carried it all the time. Because if I'm 800 yards from the truck. I wanted to know where my dog was at right then and there, when in timeout, without waiting to get back to the truck.

This rule can't be any simpler guys. UKC has made it so we can protect our dogs from the dangerous roads and other bad situations. As well as keeping the hunt honest.

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December 2013 has the garmin rule there. Its broke down and made it black and white. Check it out. It did answer all my questions.

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Lovis Burns.. if I read your post right..

The judge has the right to see anyones ALPHA at any time to insure it is off and the battery is out.

UKC has made it this way so that During a timeout it can be used to locate your dog. Not just when you are scratched or the hunt being over.

You are saying you can locate your dog with an Alpha during a time out? But once you put a battery in it.. doesn't that fall under the Control feature? You can take the prongs out.. but can't disable the toner.. which now gives an unfair advantage to beat the hour rule? Just saying....

And people... the rules are simple...but... with the word "any" ... Can't hear any debate.. seems to leave it up to who has the scorecard.. remember what Patti wrote.. the word "any" is coming into play, if I read her post right... Without that word.. makes it all different.. no matter what you believe.. there will be people to use THAT to their advantage.....Use the Alpha.. get scratched.. period... it's the use of that word "any" that comes into play... There are still judges out there that have tried.. " on my cast".. to scratch us for having our Garmins out.. didn't listen to the rules.. or acted stupid about it... ReRead Patti's post.. it's the word "any" that has people stumped...or at least some of the less smart people...

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Gone but never forgotten
Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Moonlight Serenade... Gr. Ch. Nite Ch PR Hillbillys Smokey River Dutch HTX X Gr. Ch. Nite CH. PR Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara

Gr. Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara... Dual Gr. Ch PR Bowens Blue Deuce X Ch. Nite Ch. PR Becky.

Gr Ch Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Betty Jane...... PR. Crites Soggy Bottom Blue Banjo X PR. Mosquito Creek Tree mamma Sis

Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Rattlin Samantha ... Dual Gr Ch PR Mid Ohio Rattlin Sam X Gr Ch PR. Lethal Blue Jet's Xena

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Last edited by harleydan1956 on 03-20-2014 at 09:45 PM

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Kenny, Lovis and anyone else who thinks use of an alpha is Scratching offense... or you CAN or Can't carry it...
ENJOY.....

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...eadid=928368116

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Dan and Kris Rosier
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Home of: Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Lil Bit of Respect.... Ch. Nite Ch PR Shivers' Magic Lead X GR. Ch. Nite Ch PR Lethal Blue Betty Jane
PR. Lethal Blue Tayen Grace..... Nite Ch. Pr Coffins creek running J.R. X Gr Ch Nite Ch PR Lethal Blue Moonlite Serenade.
PR. Lethal Blue Jane's Mini Me... Dual Gr. Ch. Twin Springs Running Bullet II X Ch. Lethal.Blue Lil Bit of Respect.



Gone but never forgotten
Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Moonlight Serenade... Gr. Ch. Nite Ch PR Hillbillys Smokey River Dutch HTX X Gr. Ch. Nite CH. PR Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara

Gr. Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara... Dual Gr. Ch PR Bowens Blue Deuce X Ch. Nite Ch. PR Becky.

Gr Ch Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Betty Jane...... PR. Crites Soggy Bottom Blue Banjo X PR. Mosquito Creek Tree mamma Sis

Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Rattlin Samantha ... Dual Gr Ch PR Mid Ohio Rattlin Sam X Gr Ch PR. Lethal Blue Jet's Xena

Gr. Ch. Nite Ch Hillbilly's Smokey River Blue Dutch HTX..... Gr. Ch. Gr. Nite Ch Pr. Smokey River Tramp's Blue Lake and Pr. Misty River Blue Doll III.
(Dutch wasn't ours, but he was here and like one of the family)

Pr. Dan's little Porter.... my last beagle...

Last edited by harleydan1956 on 03-20-2014 at 09:47 PM

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I did not know you could carry an Alpha with the battery out. When did they announce that? Im purty disappointed in myself for missing that.

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