Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Marshall, IL
Posts: 144

Had something happen in nite hunt last night that I have never had happen. Keep in mind it was at an RQE so MOH decision is final.

We are hunting woods that has been cut over.

Dogs A and B are handled at tree in brush pile. Handlers had to climb over brush to handle dogs coon is seen and scored. Handlers proceed down bottom and dogs A and B are recast toward dog C and D

Dogs C and D are treed thru the country. As walking toward dogs C anD dog B is struck and treed back in area just scored. Handler states dog is on different tree. When scoring dog B tree coon is seen two people vote that it is same tree two vote that it is different tree. ? Is placed on card clear majority that coon is seen I referenced two rules one under circle and delete points and other under three exceptions under rules using hunting judge that it takes majority

How would you score it? I thought dog should have been plussed
Jeff murphy by the way I lost question

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

Delete, two said same tree two said different. Just like two seen coon two didnt. Thats what i would say.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

when scoring a tree there has to be a majority or points are deleted. Clearly there was no majority. Delete. seems like there certainly should have been a majority. How about the rule for limbs touching was that questioned. In this case if limbs had been touching enough for a coon to have climbed or crossed I would suggest it was the same coon. I was not there however. Most the time I when limbs are touching it is to give the dog the benefit but in a case like this I would think it would apply so as not to have a dog score twice on the same coon.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Marshall, IL
Posts: 144

Kelly and tim

No question on whether coon was seen or not. Read rules under use of hunting judges there are three situations that it takes majority of cast to rule

A. To plus minus or delete tree

B to call time out

C to determine if tree or coon was previously scored

In this case clear majority that coon in tree. What is to keep two guys saying any tree in woods is same tree do we just delete and go on? By the way garmin showed that it was different tree within about 100 yards however garmin cant be used in scoring

Maybe allen can address rule

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

Did the two that voted it was the same tree help them to say it was the same tree .

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: gillett PA
Posts: 545

Had a young man spectating on a cast one night at a local club, not on my cast, but he was telling me he knows the judge/guide scored the same tree twice , just came in from a different direction. any way he asked me if a guy could care a piece of carpenter chalk and just mark a tree when it was scored, sounded like it might work so a tree didn't get scored twice or to tell if it was a different tree. He was just spectating so he had no say in how this tree was scored, but he's probably going to be carrying a piece of chalk or some sort of marker when he starts comp hunting.

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Marshall, IL
Posts: 144

I like the idea of chalk hadnt thought of that. Tim the guy that voted with me that different tree had the most to lose as he was leading cast at the time.

The other guys seemed like good guys. I like to think they made an honest mistake.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1725

On a judgement call 2_2 vote goes with the judge. Whatever the judges vote was would be the call.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location:
Posts: 3985

2 to 2

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

Hunting judge has no more power than a hunter on a voting call.

Jeff maybe they didnt want a redbone to win. There are those people that cant see a redbone winning

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

sometimes on a hunt we have to take our lumps and sometimes you get some lumps given to you.
This question is very similar to one that happened at American days. John Dell remembers I'm sure. I learned couple things at that hunt. One ,even MOH can get it wrong sometimes and two, it takes a majority when it comes to any votes concerning trees.
On that hunt all four cast members seen a possum in a tree. The majority means dogs are minus but two of the hunters also seen a coon and two did not. No majority to over turn the possum so the possum stands. All dogs are minus. I got it wrong that night but never will again.

In your case it's the tree itself that is being voted on first only after it is determined eligible do you even look for a coon. The fact that everyone sees the coon makes no matter until the tree is determine eligible first and with no majority the tree shouldn't even be shined.

Sorry man sounds like this one is one of those where you get the lumps given to ya...Sometimes snow is a good thing, this wouldn't have happened this time of year in Pa. Too many tracks in the snow.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Last edited by Sawblade on 03-10-2014 at 12:38 AM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I have been on several casts where 2 handlers refuse to see a coon so it is circled. I have been on several casts where 2 handlers refuse to minus a tree so it gets deleted. But this is the first time that I have heard of two handlers voting to not even score a tree. This has to be a first.

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Registered: Jun 2011
Location: jesup Ga
Posts: 476

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sawblade
sometimes on a hunt we have to take our lumps and sometimes you get some lumps given to you.
This question is very similar to one that happened at American days. John Dell remembers I'm sure. I learned couple things at that hunt. One ,even MOH can get it wrong sometimes and two, it takes a majority when it comes to any votes concerning trees.
On that hunt all four cast members seen a possum in a tree. The majority means dogs are minus but two of the hunters also seen a coon and two did not. No majority to over turn the possum so the possum stands. All dogs are minus. I got it wrong that night but never will again.

---

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location:
Posts: 3985

is try to move on from it. We all know that there will be those cast!! All of us that have been competition hunting any amount of time have experienced things that are unfair!!! I always try to stand up for what is right, standing up for what is right does not always mean that's the way it will go. My suggestion enjoy the good hunts forget the bad ones, and then try to forgive people. Carrying it around does not help. Also try to make sure the same thing never happens again!! Go over and over and over the rules, if your not sure always ask!!!

Good luck in the future!

Living life is a learning experience!!!!

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

I believe jack is correct
If I under stood Allen right last year at red days when a cast had a split vote on a judgement call

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

Split tree is a judges call, your right it would take a majority to reverse the judges call. Dang I think I got this one wrong again.

How did the judge vote ?

you can't score the same tree or coon twice . come on Allen I need another lesson.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Last edited by Sawblade on 03-10-2014 at 11:29 AM

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

You got to have the majority of the cast vote on these 3 .

1. Scoring the tree . ( keep in mind that's not talking about if limbs are touching ) .

2. Calling timeout .

3. If it's a previously scored tree .


The answer is you score it , cause you don't have a majority to over turn the judge's decision .

Last edited by Charles Pullen on 03-10-2014 at 04:10 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charles Pullen
You got to have the majority of the cast vote on these 3 .

1. Scoring the tree , plus , minus , circle , delete , ( keep in mind that's not talking about if limbs are touching ) .

2. Calling timeout .

3. If it's a previously scored tree .


The answer is you score it , cause you don't have a majority to over turn the judge's decision .

---

If the judge and one other cast member vote to plus a tree and the other two vote to circle the tree, you don't have a majority to overturn the judge's decision but you don't plus the tree.

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

Haven't had my coffee yet Richard . (LOL) I never said that you Plus a tree on a 2 to 2 vote . Now to the ? is can they plus the B dog 2nd tree that was a 2 to 2 vote on possibly of same tree he treed the first time , yes cause the majority was not the vote on that .

Last edited by Charles Pullen on 03-10-2014 at 08:54 PM

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Marshall, IL
Posts: 144

Question wasn't whether a coon was seen or not. All cast members agreed coon in tree.

Question was whether same tree that had previously been scored or not and vote was 2-2

I said under hunting judges rules: that since majority wasn't reached dog should have been plussed?

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millcreekred12
Question wasn't whether a coon was seen or not. All cast members agreed coon in tree.

Question was whether same tree that had previously been scored or not and vote was 2-2

I said under hunting judges rules: that since majority wasn't reached dog should have been plussed?

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

quote:

---

Originally posted by Millcreekred12
Had something happen in nite hunt last night that I have never had happen. Keep in mind it was at an RQE so MOH decision is final.

We are hunting woods that has been cut over.

Dogs A and B are handled at tree in brush pile. Handlers had to climb over brush to handle dogs coon is seen and scored. Handlers proceed down bottom and dogs A and B are recast toward dog C and D

Dogs C and D are treed thru the country. As walking toward dogs C anD dog B is struck and treed back in area just scored. Handler states dog is on different tree. When scoring dog B tree coon is seen two people vote that it is same tree two vote that it is different tree. ? Is placed on card clear majority that coon is seen I referenced two rules one under circle and delete points and other under three exceptions under rules using hunting judge that it takes majority

How would you score it? I thought dog should have been plussed
Jeff murphy by the way I lost question

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Panels and Appeals are in motion at RQE's. Strike one Jeff.

Takes majority vote to make it a previously scored tree. One for two Jeff. Plus the dog!

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Marshall, IL
Posts: 144

I knew Allen would know. I didn't know about RQE being able to have panel my bad there

Thanks for the information

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

So a hunting judge has more authority when it comes to a voting cituation these days. If thats true than could a judge and his buddy say they see a coon and the other two do not see it ,so it is plussed. It takes a majority to overrule the judge correct?

Last edited by Tim Trone on 03-11-2014 at 12:43 AM

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim Trone
So a hunting judge has more authority when it comes to a voting cituation these days. If thats true than could a judge and his buddy say they see a coon and the other two do not see it ,so it is plussed. It takes a majority to overrule the judge correct?

---

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