Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2843

If I wanted to add a trait to my dogs, and they were Walkers, I would have a pretty good idea where to go. Say it was "tree" that I needed or "track", there are bloodlines of dogs that a majority of Walker breeders would say to go to like Rat or Wipeout/Clover. It also seems like their isn't any problem with those lines being identified with having those traits. So, why is so easy to discuss some of the known traits within the Walker bloodlines but if a strength or weakness is discussed within the Bluetick breed, all heck might break loose?

Probably asking too much, but this is just for discussion, not to see if I can get all heck to break loose.

What lines or individual dogs do some of you think would be known for being well above average on a particular trait ( tree, go, independence, locating ability, accuracy, etc. ) and would improve that trait on most other bloodline?

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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Mid-Mo
Posts: 3826

John,
Ole Turk(John II) has been crossed on most of the popular bloodlines and he is producing early starting, hard treeing stay put treedogs that can win in the big hunts.........Tim

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

Mr. Smith, I am a okies so I favor the Smokey river dogs. Bullet 2 should of had 1000 pups but he is a Tad tuff haired and monkey faced and alot of folks don't like that. They missed out. The old dog threw hounds that anybody could train to their way of hunting. Very fast on track and true one bark tree dogs. I can't say enough about him.

Another was double springs Pete. Troy just will not promote a hound. Pete was really reproducing and nobody knew it tell it was to late, same with echo 2. Echo 2 percentage was over 13% and he only had 100 pups or so.

I like alot of both on the top and bottom side and it really hasn't been done up close near enough. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: paris mo
Posts: 479

it seams to me the bullet and rattler dogs realy cover the country and most of the rattler dogs have a pretty lose mouth on strike jmo

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Posts: 1648

Skunk creek dogs are the best track dogs I've seen go,not just stick yur nose down and work there the kind that run with there heads up LOOKING for a coon not just run around till the find one,of all the blue dogs I've hunted with skunk creek dogs have the best head on there shoulders when it comes to finding a coon and getting him to a tree!

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Jesse nappin
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Location: Ar.
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quote:

---

Originally posted by max destruction
Skunk creek dogs are the best track dogs I've seen go,not just stick yur nose down and work there the kind that run with there heads up LOOKING for a coon not just run around till the find one,of all the blue dogs I've hunted with skunk creek dogs have the best head on there shoulders when it comes to finding a coon and getting him to a tree!

---

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

So far it looks like you could cross a bullet dog with turk,or a skunk creek dog with turk,and have a dog that would start early,get gone quick,run track fast,and stay treed.Don't know if they would be very loud though.

I believe Rambo II threw very loud dogs.So i would ad that to the Bullet x Turk cross,or the Skunk Creek x Turk cross.

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Posts: 1648

Hammer and jet but the OLD hammer and jet,they've allways been bred to outside dogs and there not even a LINE of dogs so to say,there's not many Blueticks that have 20 generations in a row of grand night females in there ped!

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Jesse nappin
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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by max destruction
Hammer and jet but the OLD hammer and jet,they've allways been bred to outside dogs and there not even a LINE of dogs so to say,there's not many Blueticks that have 20 generations in a row of grand night females in there ped!

---

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GRCH GRNITECH"PR" Blue Iron Brummy HTX

Top 100 Finalist 2012 UKC World Hunt.

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Tree Blue

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Registered: Sep 2009
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Posts: 1648

I'm a firm believer most Bluetick lines have something to offer in 1 way or another like a recipe but not enough people go get it cause they allready got the best or they go out one time than go back to the old stuff,the Bluetick breed needs to move ahead!

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Jesse nappin
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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 367

Im a jet guy and love them. Only thing I believe would have put them over the top would be nose power. Not saying there's not crosses out there that don't have colder noses but the older jet breeding where pretty medium nose hounds. I'm making a cross now with my jet male and my levi female that should put alot more nose in them. Easy handling fast starting. jmo

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Verailles IL
Posts: 202

JMO...The blues got enough nose.....its drive and speed we are missing ....ther is a few hunters around here that just hide hunt got some stuff...if you want nose give them a call...they got some old blood..one step one bawl stuff....it has already been said here ...but everytime this convo comes up ther is a big pissing match insted of a group trying to work together to make things happen.......ill be happy if this post makes it ...would love to here from everyone

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

I think this is a great thread and hope it stays clean!

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Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
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2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
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2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

It would also be very refreshing to see some Stud owners/Gyp owners list areas their dogs are short in or that they wished they could improve on. They all have holes and/or faults. Even list crosses they have tried that did not click as expected or that they would recommend not doing based on their experiences.

Keep em coming folks!

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2843

Thanks for all the replies so far. I hope to see a lot more. Always learning.

I had a very interesting conversation with a breeder about 4 years ago. That conversation still bounces around my head a lot. One statement that he made was that continued family breedings for several generations would eventually produce more to the average. What I gathered from that, and looking back at experience from seeing several generations of family breeding, was that he was most likely correct. I also looked back thru time and remembered that some of my best dogs, and some of the worst crosses were from outcrosses. Knowing dominate traits thrown from a stud or line would help improve the success rate when making decisions if trying to improve.

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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Registered: Jul 2013
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Posts: 536

BULLET AS YOUR BASE TO ME GOES HUNTIN OK GOOD ONE BARK TREE DOGS BUT TO ME THERE BEST QUALLITY TO ME IS THERE INDAPENDENT

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ov_blues
Thanks for all the replies so far. I hope to see a lot more. Always learning.

I had a very interesting conversation with a breeder about 4 years ago. That conversation still bounces around my head a lot. One statement that he made was that continued family breedings for several generations would eventually produce more to the average. What I gathered from that, and looking back at experience from seeing several generations of family breeding, was that he was most likely correct. I also looked back thru time and remembered that some of my best dogs, and some of the worst crosses were from outcrosses. Knowing dominate traits thrown from a stud or line would help improve the success rate when making decisions if trying to improve.

---

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Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 511

mine have too many brains makes them hard to train cause they are smartier than me lol

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

A problem is folks baseing there knowledge on a line off a few hounds that really aren't good representatives

I have read some of the replies and have alot of first hand experience with some listed above and have had way different experiences. Keep it to myself to respect the thread

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

here and get a toe wet.... Speed !!!! when they hit a bad one they gotta move it not grub it out, identifying a bad track, determining direction of travel then drift it out and come treed. If the first part of my statement happened, FASTER, then all would be well with the world... LOL... Seriously, beginning the drifting out on a bad track sooner would be something to strive for... I had em from the late 70's into the early 90's.. Bragg, Vaughn, old Hammer and Smokey River Lead blooded.. I was nothing more than a pleasure hunter and no one was interested in my hounds, didn't matter how good they were, NO TITLES, NO BREEDING... I lost those dogs to old age and raising 4 kids... Seen some as good or better but they are not common or reproduced enough with consistancy.. What I have now is extreamly balanced in all departments, I'll keep him.... God Bless !!!

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Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 144

Just like in any breed some of the best hounds are not well known. There are breeders who cull everything but the best of the litter so there is nothing to sell. In addition they do not competion coon hunt, but trust me there are blueticks that are as good or better as any other breed of hound.

Last edited by 408northville on 09-23-2013 at 01:31 AM

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 144

I responded to some of your statements.

PEOPLE KEEP MAKING CROSSES OR BREEDING TO THE SAME STUD OVER AND OVER.BUT DON'T IMPROVE THE BREED????

Mine improve with each litter, have not made in outcross in eleven years and never will.

#1 TO ME;THEY NEED BIGGER MOTORS FOR THE LATE ROUNDS OR 2ND AND 3RD NIGHT IN THE "BIG" HUNTS.

Yes most of the ones out there are like that. You would have to kill mine before they would quit. If they did quit I would do it for them

#2 MORE INDEPENDENCE ;WHERE I HUNT WE GOT COON.I CAN'T STAND SEEING ALL DOGS AT SAME TREE,WHEN I KNOW THERE ARE MORE COON.
In the woods mine do not know another hound exists.

NO IDEA WHERE TO LOOK,AS EVERYBODY SAYS THEY GOT IT. I'VE SEEN A CPL. NICE HOUNDS,BUT NOTHING CONSISTENT FOR THEIR BLOODLINE.

You can not tell mine apart in looks or ability.

Last edited by 408northville on 09-07-2013 at 03:22 AM

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: paris mo
Posts: 479

go back to the orig question I was hoping to learn some general qualities in stead all it has turned into is a we need crap like always.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin Center,Oh
Posts: 2424

With all due respect! You need to keep your little 3 letter phrase of this board, we do have youth that visit here on this site alot at times. This is no place for it!! Now, back to the ?

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Danny G

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 144

To answer your questions you cannot add those things it in any breed. Contrary to what you may have heard you cannot breed one time to any hound and get a specific trait. Traits are controlled by a genetic code. The family has to be related and the genes have to be fixed in order to keep a specific trait. The inbreeding coefficient is the percentage of homogenous genes. The higher the inbreeding coefficient , the greater the chance the offspring will have in getting the homogenous genes from their parents. Hound must have a high inbreeding coefficient before you can attempt to fix traits. This is the main reason you have not see much improvement in any of the breeds and the reason people keep going back to the past. If you breed to another hound that is very fast to add speed to your hound, chances are, you will never get, if you do, you may never see it again. Because each time you breed your changing the genetic code. Before you can change or add a trait you have to make the genes homogenous within the family. If the genes are not homogenous you start all over with each breeding other than the genes that make them a hound. JTG

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