Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

What percentage of hunters today firmly believe that hounds should be completely independent when you turn them loose together so that they always go different directions and always work different tracks and always tree on different trees?

What percentage of hunters today believe that a hound should be independent enough to work his own track in the event they get on a different track, but that hounds should willingly and productively work together to run the same track and tree together when it ends?

What percentage of today's coonhound breeders have a goal to breed total independence into coonhounds?

What percentage of today's coonhound trainers are willing to be as hard on a hound as it takes to train it to be totally independent?

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I don't know about percentages but I want my to compete not just perform

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Quitman, Ms.
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I do not know the percentages, but I know I hear more and more from various handlers my dog better be by himself/herself unless something covers him/her...

I still like to see them in a pack. If they are always alone how can comparisons of the individual's traits be truely made. It is a fault in my eyes that the dog is always trying to get to it's self.

Some peopel may wonder why it is a fault for hounds to want to work alone (keep in mind hounds are considered a pack animal). First the point systems in most of the kennel clubs is designed for the hounds to work together. In my eyes there is usually a fault that makes the hound want to be alone. From my experience over the years most of the dogs will be alone for a couple of different reasons: Can not keep up or are not fast enough for the lead dog (so they find them something else), do not have enough nose to work tough tracks so they go find hot ones, forced to not work with other dogs by trainers, and are anti social thus being natural loaners...

I am seeing more and more natural loaners. People are starting to breed for the trait. Most of my dogs still pack, but will stay to their self if they get their own thing going. I want mine to go where the action is, but I do not want them to leave their own action.

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I want a hound that when it smells a track it tries to catch that coon regardless of what the other dogs are doing period! I will not get after a dog for doing that.

This is what I call independent. A dog that refuses to run or tree with another dog is not independent. That is jealousy, and it is a trait that should remove it from breeding stock.

I guess Todd, that puts me in the old school category.

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Larry Atherton

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i'm old school on this one, I like dogs that work together but also capable of treeing coon on its own

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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quote:

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Originally posted by chip johnson
i'm old school on this one, I like dogs that work together but also capable of treeing coon on its own

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Al Tarantella

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: SE MN
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I like a dog that runs and trees coon and could care less what others are doing. I like them to prefer to be alone but don't mind another covering them and will honor others in close proximity if they are working the same coon track.

I hate jealous independent dogs that would rather ground pound or get treed slick alone rather than backing another with a coon, but what I hate more is a trainer that feels the need to man make a dog independent.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chip johnson
i'm old school on this one, I like dogs that work together but also capable of treeing coon on its own

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I want mine to get by itself and hold all the pressure in the world but if it doesnt have its own thing going i want it to have enough sence to pack in on a dog that is working a track.

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I want my dogs to work the first track they come to. If they can get split from the other dogs that fine and if they tree with the others that's fine also.

What I don't like is a dog that blows through the country looking for an easy one to tree and other dogs tree coons that mine missed.

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The kind i like are alone most of the time because they are looking for a coon. If you cast 2 dogs and they get in the timber 3 or 4 hundred yards without gettin struck they shouldnt be togeather, if they are one of them is tagging along instead of hunting.
Packin is for beagles and bear dogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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The truly independent ones come that way. No training needed.. I've had a couple. I really had rather not have a 100% loner. I need one that trees fine with the pack but will split a majority of the time.

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Michael Ghorley

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quote:

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Originally posted by brogy
I like a dog that runs and trees coon and could care less what others are doing. I like them to prefer to be alone but don't mind another covering them and will honor others in close proximity if they are working the same coon track.

I hate jealous independent dogs that would rather ground pound or get treed slick alone rather than backing another with a coon, but what I hate more is a trainer that feels the need to man make a dog independent.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Greenville, North Carolina
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I want a dog that smart enough to know his/her limitations on a track to start with dont go screaming on a track that they know they cant push. Most of all i like a dog that will run and tree his own. Yet back a dog thats worth backing.

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: canton texas
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well i'm old school I guess . I just love listening to a good pack all running the same track down in the bottoms and all of them on the same tree when I git thar lol . but i'm not much on them compatition hunts . I just love a good sounding pack burning one up .

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Hate 2nd tree! I want 1st either alone or ahead of company!

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I like a dog that out runs the pack on any kind of track and trees accurately, he also needs to split when others make a mistake, in other words a dog that thinks for its self will make less mistakes.....Jeff

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I want one to do the same thing with a pack of dogs that they would do if they were alone.

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quote:

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Originally posted by duvall
I like a dog that out runs the pack on any kind of track and trees accurately, he also needs to split when others make a mistake, in other words a dog that thinks for its self will make less mistakes.....Jeff

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I have been in the hunts a while now. I can always remember hearing the saying " Some of yours and all of mine will beat you everytime"

Here is the problem with that. I'm sure you all at one time or another have drawn dogs you asked yourself: Why would the owner enter a dog like this? Maybe all 3 dogs in your cast were lets say below average.

Many times especially in regestired classes guys enter dogs that haven't been hunted much.

To me this is where a die hard independent dog comes into play. You don't have to worry about those deer runners, possum treers, slick treers, rough hounds, etc..

A dog that when you cut it says heck with you other 3 i'm looking to tree a coon as fast as possible will win you far more then it will lose you.

Watch this... A dog that has been hunted hard for a good while CANNOT help but want to be alone. If you see dogs packing up in a cast you can bet your last dollar none were hunted much alone.

Dogs that leave a lasting impression after you draw them usually were treeing coon off to themselves while the other ones were making circle trees/slick trees.

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Including how to handle RUFF dogs also. You know like the Bowevill looking for a HOME. (up younder).

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I like a dog that , if it strikes first , it goes on and trees that coon without a dog coming in and taking that track away from them.
If it doesn't get struck first , I want it to get to the dog that did get struck and take that track away from it and get it treed first.
Ain't nothing I like better than REAL track dog !

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quote:

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Originally posted by brogy
but what I hate more is a trainer that feels the need to man make a dog independent.

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Registered: Jun 2012
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I have never seen a dog that stayed packed very long if it is hunted hard by itself. I hunt one dog at a time so most of mine do their own thing in a cast. I hate a dead loaner the ones that will run a track with the other dogs but then not tree with them need shot.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: West Virginia
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quote:

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Originally posted by duvall
I like a dog that out runs the pack on any kind of track and trees accurately, he also needs to split when others make a mistake, in other words a dog that thinks for its self will make less mistakes.....Jeff

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