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buzzardcreek
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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: springfield
Posts: 488

Imagine this!

Use your imagination for just a minute and think about a nite hunt where everybody strikes in for 25 and don't change anything else about the rules.When I done it I saw the right dog winning the cast more often and less handler involvement.

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07-16-2013 11:47 PM

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Hoosier Man1
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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
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Your right Mike. It has been discussed on here a few times but it will never happen. It would allow the best dog to win nearly every cast.

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07-17-2013 02:13 AM

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Jackson87
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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
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That would put all the babblers in there place.Back to the dog trader.Rewarding the dog that gets parked under a coon first would make to much sence.LOL

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07-17-2013 02:29 AM

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patches9452
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

So yall dont think getting a coon struck has anything to do with a dog winning.... i will promise you the strike will win hunts with first tree dogs just like it can lose one with first tree dogs... to me to have a balanced dog you got to have strike and tree... if not hunt a cur... they eat less

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07-17-2013 02:59 AM

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Jackson87
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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
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Obviously striken a coon track will help you get a win.Most first strike dogs ant smelling no coon when the get on the card.Lets face facts.Anybody that's hunted long enough knows the differance.Jmo

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07-17-2013 03:30 AM

patches9452
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
Obviously striken a coon track will help you get a win.Most first strike dogs ant smelling no coon when the get on the card.Lets face facts.Anybody that's hunted long enough knows the differance.Jmo

i agree 100% but there are rules to minus them in place... use them and dont punish the real strike dog in the bunch... if all strike for the same it want be long until every dog in a hunt will be silent

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07-17-2013 03:33 AM

Jackson87
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Posts: 2679

Yeah your prolly right.There will always be some way to bend the rules for those who need it.

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07-17-2013 03:45 AM

buzzardcreek
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quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
i agree 100% but there are rules to minus them in place... use them and dont punish the real strike dog in the bunch... if all strike for the same it want be long until every dog in a hunt will be silent

babbling and silent trailing are both undesirable traits but silent trailing would be the lesser of the 2 evils when it comes to determining which dog treed the coon and deserves the cast win

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07-17-2013 04:20 AM

patches9452
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

quote:
Originally posted by buzzardcreek
babbling and silent trailing are both undesirable traits but silent trailing would be the lesser of the 2 evils when it comes to determining which dog treed the coon and deserves the cast win

i disagree here also.... which dog can be fixed... the mouthy dog or the silent dog.... i can shut one up but never had much luck making them open if they didnt want to

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07-17-2013 01:17 PM

JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
i agree 100% but there are rules to minus them in place... use them and dont punish the real strike dog in the bunch... if all strike for the same it want be long until every dog in a hunt will be silent

Actually Steve, there are no such rules in place.
There is no rule that minuses a dog for striking a track other than coon. ( Don't make me laugh with another reference to the running off game rule) The babbling rule specifically states that dog will be minused for striking where there is no track....., NO TRACK, the point being that ANY track will do, coon, possum, skunk or squirrel, just as long as the judge believes the dog struck some kind of track, their strike is good. Open on ANYTHING that lays a track and do it as quickly as possible, the first tool in building the next big winner.

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07-17-2013 01:45 PM

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Jackson87
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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

Jim you hit the nail on the head there.You know the rules better than me so Im glad you spoke up.

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07-17-2013 02:08 PM

T Felderman
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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Any dog striking under a minute should go in for 50. It would do away with alot of bickering and the excuses of getting beat by a babbling dog.

It is a hard pill to swallow if someone get 25+, 125+ for 150+ and ole loose mouth gets 100+ and 75+ for 175+. Get a better strike dog I guess?

I think overall the rules are fine. jmo

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07-17-2013 02:34 PM

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Any dog striking under a minute should go in for 50. It would do away with alot of bickering and the excuses of getting beat by a babbling dog.

It is a hard pill to swallow if someone get 25+, 125+ for 150+ and ole loose mouth gets 100+ and 75+ for 175+. Get a better strike dog I guess?

I think overall the rules are fine. jmo

Any suggestion for the handlers that would need to put up with "the annoyance of listening to loose mouth all night"? And to those now breeding for 'the mouthier the better"?

Am I the only one wishing an old babbling rule was still in effect?

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07-17-2013 04:54 PM

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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Any suggestion for the handlers that would need to put up with "the annoyance of listening to loose mouth all night"? And to those now breeding for 'the mouthier the better"?

Am I the only one wishing an old babbling rule was still in effect?

Yes my suggestion would be to sit back and enjoy the fact that all those loose mouths are no longer gaining 75 points on you just because they got that loose mouth.

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07-17-2013 05:09 PM

GA DAWG
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Don't change nothing now. I finally got me a strike dog

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07-17-2013 05:33 PM

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K. Singletary
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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Am I the only one wishing an old babbling rule was still in effect?

No, I'm with you 100% on this.

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07-17-2013 05:39 PM

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K. Singletary
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Posts: 1814

For everyone that wants to strike in for 50. Cover dogs cover strike dogs just like they do treed dogs. Why should a dog that has stood around waiting for a dog to bark just so it can go running to it get the same strike points as the dog that actually went hunting and found a track. I understand that loose mouth dogs have ruined the strike points but this should be addressed in other ways and not punish the honest dog that goes hunting looking for a track.

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07-17-2013 05:46 PM

Vic Stoll
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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

LOL

Another chip off the broken record, another piece from the horse that has been beat to pieces!

Without failure, every example given to justify every one of these threads always have the "coon treer" getting a last strike, & ole me too getting first strike & second tree. I just don't think it happens this way every time. Good Lord forbid that hound may get a least a third strike combined with that first tree. Then the ole 175+ me too theory winning goes out the window.

Reading all these threads leads me to this question, is there such a hound as a "BALANCED" hound anymore? Is anyone breeding for good strike dogs that are quick tree dogs? I'm not talking about the ones that leave barking & never shut up till they tree, I'm talking just a good quick strike dog.

If more folks were honest with themselves about what is on the end of their lead, they would quit placing the tag of "honest strike dog" on a hound that is semi-silent. If your hound is short on getting its mouth open, admit it & take your medicine. If it is just too bitter of a pill to swallow, maybe change what is on the end of that lead strap.

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07-17-2013 06:00 PM

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goodtimekennel
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i would like every one striking in for 25 , when your hunting a coon dog that only opens his mouth when he smells a coon and you get beat by a babbler and a 2nd treedog it (sucks) i was in a cast at english days with 3 babblers but do you think any of them voted to minus ?? nope not a 1 of them said yes my dog was babbling

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07-17-2013 06:59 PM

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chuck west
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Am I the only one wishing an old babbling rule was still in effect?

Needs to go back to this ruling ,,JMO.

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07-17-2013 08:34 PM

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gunslinger266
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Vic you are dead on there is nothing wrong with the rules the problem is with the hound and the breeders not keeping a coon dog their goal. I am tired of hearing people whine about getting beat by a babbling dog when the bigger problem is silent or tight mouth dogs. Y'all bred the tree monsters now you deal with it but changing the rules ain't the answer. A coon hound is supposed to be an open trailer not a tight mouth cur.

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07-17-2013 08:56 PM

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berger
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quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC

Am I the only one wishing an old babbling rule was still in effect?

Nope I would be all for it....

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07-17-2013 09:03 PM

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berger
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

Re: Imagine this!

quote:
Originally posted by buzzardcreek
Use your imagination for just a minute and think about a nite hunt where everybody strikes in for 25 and don't change anything else about the rules.When I done it I saw the right dog winning the cast more often and less handler involvement.

I don't doubt that strategy would work.

Buzzardcreek Now imagine this strategy. 4 dog cast A tree monster, a babbling me tooer. and 2 coon dogs. They get turned loose 4 times that night. On the first turn loose the babbler gets 1st strike, the one coondog will call @c gets second, tree monster gets 3rd, and the other coondawg gets 4th.The tree monster and the me tooer tree together all night and only have circle points. The 2 coondogs split tree all 4 turn looses and both score + on all 4 of there trees no circle no minus. Who wins??

I say bring back the old babbling rule.
Leave the strike points 100,75,50,25 as they are now. On the first turn loose points would be opened up to all dogs. After that strike points would only be opened up to the dogs that scored on coon. After that first turn loose the tree monster and babbling me tooer would be handicapped as they are only going in for 25 strike until they score a coon. The 2 coondogs would have a duo going the rest of the night between them 2 and the better dog should win. No tie strikes do help in breaking ties and with this system the possibility of ties are a lot more unlikely then with only scoring 25 points on every strike.

This scoring system would also reward the dog that trees a coon while other dogs are running in the country as that dog could get turned loose for 100 strike points. This would eliminate a lot of clock and stop watch work as you wouldn't have to decide when the hour was up of dogs holding strike open.

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07-17-2013 09:32 PM

T Felderman
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Refresh

What was the old babbling rule?

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07-17-2013 09:34 PM

berger
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Re: Refresh

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
What was the old babbling rule?

If memory serves me correctly old strike rule was.
On first turn loose you had 3 minutes to strike your dog. After that the dog had to be struck on or before the 3rd bark if it was babbling they got minused the second offense they was scratched. Strike and babbling in my opinion was tied together and didn't let the dog get a minute away from you and then say it struck.

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Last edited by berger on 07-17-2013 at 09:53 PM

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07-17-2013 09:48 PM

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