Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

All you guys that spend so much time complaining about the hunts and how they are run and judged,heres an idea for ya... stop bitchin and do something about it. Join your local club, get involved, Learn the rules inside and out so YOU can be an honest judge. If you feel that a judge has made a bad call, speak up,ask for a vote, if you still arent satisfied put a ? on the card and let the MOH. sort it out. Thats how the system works.
Getting on this message board and running down the hunts accomplishes absolutly nothing other than discourage the newcomer that is thinking about getting involved in the hunts.
Overall the hunts are run by great guys who donate their time because they love the sport. its their hobby and they are for the most part doing their best to be fair to everyone attending. I hunt both KCs. I win some and loose alot and i cant remember the last time i went home feeling cheated.
Its a game, the best dog doesnt always win, go to have fun and you will.

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Registered: Jul 2012
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Well said sir! Winning is easy, learning how to be a good loser takes skill!

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Well said, couldn't agree more!

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What are some of the actual, recent experiences from those who are actually out there paying entry fees? I ask this because I know a number of guys that post on this board that I see regularly at the hunts and none of them are ever on here talking about whats wrong with the hunts or how bad they got treated at some hunt.
My last three entry fees paid in the last 3 weeks, UKC at Silver Lake, about 20 dogs, no questions or problems back at the clubhouse that I noticed. UKC RQE at Peru, 36 dogs, no questions or problem brought back that I am aware of. PKC, Topeka last Thursday night, 14 dogs, no questions, no complaints.
Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I'm just living right though I doubt it's either.

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Registered: Aug 2012
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2 weeks ago I hunted 2 nights at our local club Friday night we had a dead cast but we had a great hunt there was never a cross word spoken by any handler. One handler even struck the wrong dog and he must have said he was sorry 20 times. Sat night me and my hunting buddy drew out with a young man from about 70 miles away and we had never met him before. Guess what he won the cast can you believe it we had the votes and he still won (LOL). I considered both hunts fun an I didn't hear anyone at the club house complaining about anything other than their dog. Cheating does happen but not near as often as some would like to believe.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2963

Do your home work about knowing the rules & have a dog on the end of your leash that is capable of winning & the winning will come. Too many people think that just because their dog can tree an easy coon 1 night a week, it's ready to "blow the competition" away. Take care, Ron.

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Mulberry Grove, Illinois
Posts: 638

Jim, In the last five weeks I have benn to Dupont, In., Hardin Ky., LaPlata, Mo., and several clubs in my home state of Illinois. I have had a good run. Got in the final four at three $500 added purse hunts, and got a UKC first and second during that time. It was a total of 6PKC and 3 UKC hunts.Never seen any complaints whatsoever. Everyone to my knowledge was satisfied and happy at these hunts. In my opinion, there are more people badmouthing the hunts than what there are problems at the hunts. I probably go to more hunts than most and it is rare that I see cheats or problems. Most of the people who are on here bashing the hunts are the ones who do NOT do there homework before the hunts. To have a winner, you have to put the time in the weeks ahead of the hunt as you already know.

To be honest, when I read all the complaints of cheating going on at the clubs, it really makes me wonder how many of these people complaining have paid very many entry fees, because I, like you Jim, sure don't see as much as I am reading about. Yes, I have been cheated, but it has been very rare that it happens. I have never seen a sporting event that has crybabies such as coonhunting does.

Last edited by Bobby Reynolds on 03-24-2013 at 07:39 PM

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Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

This actually a good thread except the crybaby part. It's almost as if you're trying to offend at least someone but to each his own I reckon. I've only been on two casts that I'd consider bad and both if those only had one bad cast member and each if those were guys that brought a dog that at least in that night was not a good dog and wouldn't really hunt. To meet this message board is a lot worse than the actual hunts. It's VERY rare that I've ever seen someone talk smack face to face. Face to face when someone says something u think is BS people tend to let it go in one ear and out the other and don't comment much. On here some people like to run their mouth and say things they wouldn't dare say to someone's face I guess bc they don't have to be able to back up their words.

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Union Point,GA
Posts: 264

I'm still new to the hunts but I've enjoyed it so far. I didn't want to for a long time for fear of like many being cheated but I went and spectated on a few casts and decided it looked more fun than what I had read and herd about. Turned out the cast I was on this past week me and one of the other guys knew a lot of the same people even thow he lives almost 2 hours away. They were all real helpful and I had a great time. I lost but still had a good time. They all agreed that I'd meet some along the way who would cheat me if they could but told me not to worry cause they generally don't pack a coon dog.

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Registered: May 2008
Location:
Posts: 560

GREAT POST, alot of this is that they go out pleasure hunting every now and then and decide to go to a hunt. Joe has been run till he has no toe nails and his hip bones are showing, and beats them so bad they have to make an excuse up to cover rowdy. When in fact they should just be happy to have seen what hard work and a great nite coonin was all about.


If you know the rules and most in the cast does you will not have any problems.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

I read posts from someone like JIM and although he may not agree with someone and may think they're full if crap he's tactful about what he posts on their thread or maybe just laughs to himself and doesn't comment at all. I csnt remember him ever posting anything about negative about someone or their dog (although i havent read every post he's made). It would seem he's a classy guy and is respected on here because of it. In my opinion he's a good ambassador for competition hunting.

I think too some people on here tend to forget that UKC and this message board isn't only for competition hunters but just for pleasure hunters too. Most hunters I know like to talk dogs and hunting whether they comp hunt every weekend or have never entered a hunt.

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I don't know why this is hard to understand. Everyone wants to win, some will go to any length and piss anyone off and justify their actions.

What people seem to NOT realize is there will be THREE THATS RIGHT THREE losers per cast.

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well said. like i said in another post. i don't ever remember getting cheated or done wrong on a cast and i have been on a lot of cast. most of the time if i got beat i made a bad call, got beat by a better dog or i was trying to push a dog to soon. i enjoyed the fellowship of the cast. i rarely hunt the hunts these days mainly because i hunt curs now, but i do handle from time to time and enjoy all of it. i mainly take hounds for guys these days and get them ready for them to hunt the hunts. this has brought me just as much joy as the hunts.

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To answer Jim's questions, because I agree with perry co,

Lately I have been on some bad casts...bad enough that I am unsure on whether I want to keep going to hunts right now...

I've had judges and the rest of the cast vote to minus legitimate den trees.."I don't wanna see no hole..there ain't a coon up that tree!". That's been happening a lot...2-1 is a majority and a minus...take it to the MOH won't help..I will be called a liar..

Had 2 guys declare their dogs split..keeping a desperate clock..my tree closed..3rd guy trees his dog..taken as a split call...all 4 dogs at my dogs tree...judge asked me what happens to the guys tree points..I said min used because it was supposed to be split..he said ya I thought so....I look the card over at the next drop and he min used the 14 or so year old boy but circled him and his buddies...I asked how and why those dogs were circled..."they were on the back side of your dogs tree we couldn't hear them". "But you declared them split...treed 45 degrees right of my dog...quoted ulto be up the next hollow..you started a 2nd tree time for them...". They had nothing to say..but wouldn't correct it...I made them put a question on it..but it didn't matter..they minused my dog all note so I couldn't win...

4 mins left...GIANT leaf nest in the tree...only 2 dogs left...but the buddy stays to vote...in told em hurry up let's go son we can turn loose and get back to the club by deadline...oh well we voted to minus that tree so its impossible for you to win now...no reason to turn loose...

Unsportsmanlike conduct all night long...not shinning trees..not letting me know when trees are closing when I specifically asked...not starting the 2 on their dogs that are obviously not treeing...my favorite...as soon as I signed the dead card they jumped in the trucks and peeled out...they hoped to leave me lost....thankfully I have a GPS...didn't say bye..didn't ask ifni could get home..nothing! To me that's just wrong...when I guide casts I drive em to the highway or even back to the club if needed...no one will be stranded because of me...that's just low...


Is it just me? No..my buddy comes home from the same hunts with almost identical stories...

This weekend he came home saying they minused legitimate dens and circledslslicks....then the very last tree was a 10ft slick...3 dogs on it...the judge had the score card so rigged he still had plus points and was the only one...him and his buddy looked at my buddy and said "well if we circle this we have a cast winner..no reason to minus it!". So not only was that cast corrupt but the other nitech cast also may have been cheated from a rightful win!!!


Going to the club to complain in my last few casts won't help IMO...I keep an eye on what's going on...my judge is always the guy sitting next to the MOH...the guy that the MOH nudges and says you gunna sign up? And he does with 10seconds left even though he sat there for at least a half an hour...who else is in my cast? The guy that guy was sitting with and talking to all note...they usually ride together...the MOH is likely buddies with them..and even if not it is still my word against theirs...


I don't lie...I'm not a cry baby....I hate a lair..I wouldn't make this crap up...some of y'all say know the rules and bring a dog and you win...its that easy....know the rules and bring a coon dog around here and draw out a couple buddies with the card and you will get bent over...their goal is to eliminate their competition...

Cheating isn't possible??? I just showed many ways it IS...when I have a 4ft leave nest or multiple wide cracks and worn out well used den holes and I am being min used and told "we don't wanna see that there ain't a coon up there" what do you call that?? That's cheating...


When you hunt by "honor rules" and there is nothing honorable about some of these guys you are going to have issues...knowing the rules just makes it worse coz you know you done been cheated...packing a coon dog makes it worse..you are seen as the enemy and the goal is to get rid of that dog..


Its sad...it really is...and talk about meaningless titles?



But....according to some on here me and some of the others on here are just cry baby's and we don't know the rules and we don't have a coon dog.....


Sad part is I feel like if I quit I am letting the cheaters win...and I am letting my dog down....but I am not sure I can keep putting up with that crap...its not fun and you wonder why you bothered spending the time and money to go..could stay home and enjoy a good nite with the same dog and go home happy...


I've had many great casts...great hunts...good guys...some nites we laughed and joked so much and had such a good nite we had to sit down and add up scores because we had no idea who was winning...I've won a good bit of casts....and I've rightfully lists a good bit of casts..bad calls, dog not up to par, or got blown away by a smoking dog...each and every time I will shake the winners hand and tell him congrats!

My dog ain't the best in the world...I know that there's better dogs out there..there always is...I don't expect to win every single cast even though my dog is a solid coon dog...I actually HOPE to see better dogs so I know what my next pup should be from...that's part of the reason I goto the hunts...

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I agree mauser.

The rules are USELESS if your not hunting with at least 2 honest guys in your cast.

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Mauser you need to file formal complaint on these guys by not doing so your not doing your part to help make the hunts honest

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quote:

---

Originally posted by mauser06
To answer Jim's questions, because I agree with perry co,

Lately I have been on some bad casts...bad enough that I am unsure on whether I want to keep going to hunts right now...

I've had judges and the rest of the cast vote to minus legitimate den trees.."I don't wanna see no hole..there ain't a coon up that tree!". That's been happening a lot...2-1 is a majority and a minus...take it to the MOH won't help..I will be called a liar..

Had 2 guys declare their dogs split..keeping a desperate clock..my tree closed..3rd guy trees his dog..taken as a split call...all 4 dogs at my dogs tree...judge asked me what happens to the guys tree points..I said min used because it was supposed to be split..he said ya I thought so....I look the card over at the next drop and he min used the 14 or so year old boy but circled him and his buddies...I asked how and why those dogs were circled..."they were on the back side of your dogs tree we couldn't hear them". "But you declared them split...treed 45 degrees right of my dog...quoted ulto be up the next hollow..you started a 2nd tree time for them...". They had nothing to say..but wouldn't correct it...I made them put a question on it..but it didn't matter..they minused my dog all note so I couldn't win...

4 mins left...GIANT leaf nest in the tree...only 2 dogs left...but the buddy stays to vote...in told em hurry up let's go son we can turn loose and get back to the club by deadline...oh well we voted to minus that tree so its impossible for you to win now...no reason to turn loose...

Unsportsmanlike conduct all night long...not shinning trees..not letting me know when trees are closing when I specifically asked...not starting the 2 on their dogs that are obviously not treeing...my favorite...as soon as I signed the dead card they jumped in the trucks and peeled out...they hoped to leave me lost....thankfully I have a GPS...didn't say bye..didn't ask ifni could get home..nothing! To me that's just wrong...when I guide casts I drive em to the highway or even back to the club if needed...no one will be stranded because of me...that's just low...


Is it just me? No..my buddy comes home from the same hunts with almost identical stories...

This weekend he came home saying they minused legitimate dens and circledslslicks....then the very last tree was a 10ft slick...3 dogs on it...the judge had the score card so rigged he still had plus points and was the only one...him and his buddy looked at my buddy and said "well if we circle this we have a cast winner..no reason to minus it!". So not only was that cast corrupt but the other nitech cast also may have been cheated from a rightful win!!!


Going to the club to complain in my last few casts won't help IMO...I keep an eye on what's going on...my judge is always the guy sitting next to the MOH...the guy that the MOH nudges and says you gunna sign up? And he does with 10seconds left even though he sat there for at least a half an hour...who else is in my cast? The guy that guy was sitting with and talking to all note...they usually ride together...the MOH is likely buddies with them..and even if not it is still my word against theirs...


I don't lie...I'm not a cry baby....I hate a lair..I wouldn't make this crap up...some of y'all say know the rules and bring a dog and you win...its that easy....know the rules and bring a coon dog around here and draw out a couple buddies with the card and you will get bent over...their goal is to eliminate their competition...

Cheating isn't possible??? I just showed many ways it IS...when I have a 4ft leave nest or multiple wide cracks and worn out well used den holes and I am being min used and told "we don't wanna see that there ain't a coon up there" what do you call that?? That's cheating...


When you hunt by "honor rules" and there is nothing honorable about some of these guys you are going to have issues...knowing the rules just makes it worse coz you know you done been cheated...packing a coon dog makes it worse..you are seen as the enemy and the goal is to get rid of that dog..


Its sad...it really is...and talk about meaningless titles?



But....according to some on here me and some of the others on here are just cry baby's and we don't know the rules and we don't have a coon dog.....


Sad part is I feel like if I quit I am letting the cheaters win...and I am letting my dog down....but I am not sure I can keep putting up with that crap...its not fun and you wonder why you bothered spending the time and money to go..could stay home and enjoy a good nite with the same dog and go home happy...


I've had many great casts...great hunts...good guys...some nites we laughed and joked so much and had such a good nite we had to sit down and add up scores because we had no idea who was winning...I've won a good bit of casts....and I've rightfully lists a good bit of casts..bad calls, dog not up to par, or got blown away by a smoking dog...each and every time I will shake the winners hand and tell him congrats!

My dog ain't the best in the world...I know that there's better dogs out there..there always is...I don't expect to win every single cast even though my dog is a solid coon dog...I actually HOPE to see better dogs so I know what my next pup should be from...that's part of the reason I goto the hunts...

---

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mauser06,

Guess I should of chosen my words a little better. But to clear things up, when I use the word "crybabies", I am refering to the ones who get on here repeatedly and complain about being cheated at a hunt when they was not. You sound like a person with a legit complaint and I was not refering to that group of people. I know cheating happens. Any time there are rules, there will be people who break them and bend them. But I still think it is not near as bad as some let on.

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I feel like I would be the boy who cried wolf...

I can't prove the MOH or hunt director is in on it...but the last hunt I was at I watched the hunt director nudge a guy..he handed him money and smiled...he was my judge and guide...we meet the cast and the judge passed the card over to the other guy (director didn't assign judges I guess) and smiled and said you can judge...

I feel like if I go back to the club or file complaints there are enough of them guys at those clubs that are "in on it" to say I am full of it...even if 2-3-4 of us "outsiders" did it together it still looks like the club and the local guys would lie and win the complaints...


A lot of the MOH have all recently quit..or stopped..most clubs went way down hill it seems...


I don't know what the best thing to do would be...if it was just me I am smart enough to say "hey maybe its just me and I need to suck it up.." but when my buddy has identical stories from the same club but different cast it makes you wonder...

I am laid back..easy going and quiet...I am not out there to cause trouble, arguments etc...anyone that knows me knows its nearly impossible to get me fired up or upset...most people that are close to me have never seen it because it rarely happens...I'm not that guy....

I love coon hunting and I love seeing good dogs hunt...I used to like competition hunting for all the reasons y'all do....good nites in the woods..making some new friends..telling stories and jokes...seeing other dogs hunt...comparing your dog to others and seeing how he measures up...

Just lately I feel like I can't take it anymore...its no longer enjoyable for me...

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quote:

---

Originally posted by mauser06
I feel like I would be the boy who cried wolf...

I can't prove the MOH or hunt director is in on it...but the last hunt I was at I watched the hunt director nudge a guy..he handed him money and smiled...he was my judge and guide...we meet the cast and the judge passed the card over to the other guy (director didn't assign judges I guess) and smiled and said you can judge...

I feel like if I go back to the club or file complaints there are enough of them guys at those clubs that are "in on it" to say I am full of it...even if 2-3-4 of us "outsiders" did it together it still looks like the club and the local guys would lie and win the complaints...


A lot of the MOH have all recently quit..or stopped..most clubs went way down hill it seems...


I don't know what the best thing to do would be...if it was just me I am smart enough to say "hey maybe its just me and I need to suck it up.." but when my buddy has identical stories from the same club but different cast it makes you wonder...

I am laid back..easy going and quiet...I am not out there to cause trouble, arguments etc...anyone that knows me knows its nearly impossible to get me fired up or upset...most people that are close to me have never seen it because it rarely happens...I'm not that guy....

I love coon hunting and I love seeing good dogs hunt...I used to like competition hunting for all the reasons y'all do....good nites in the woods..making some new friends..telling stories and jokes...seeing other dogs hunt...comparing your dog to others and seeing how he measures up...

Just lately I feel like I can't take it anymore...its no longer enjoyable for me...

---

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most not all when they find out you know the rules and will stand up and question something the trouble will end.... especially when you can show it to them in black and white.... judgement calls are another thing... someones judgement... it may or may not be the same as mine and this is where most have a problem... if a couple get togeather and decide to out and out cheat there is very little one person can do.... have had it happen but its the exception not the rule

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John, maybe you're right and I can find enough guys to ban together...unfortunately the guys I know well enough either gave up or grin n bear it and won't wanna go through anything...but its worth a shot...


I also really appreciate you guys reading my super long posts and actually understanding what I have been dealing with lately and why I feel like I do right now....

That's what really upset me and mad me mad on the last hunt...there was a younger boy in the cast! Wasn't old enough to drive..figure he was 14 or so...

The split tree scenerio...my dog treed straight in front of us...2 mins later the judge and his buddy tree their dogs..they point their lights 45 degrees right handed...we start walking to my dog...I hear another dog there so I tell the boy let's stop and listen before the tree closes..he listens..tree closes...he trees hisdog knowing it was a split tree call...we get there and all 4 dogs are there...

Judge asked me how to score the bboys tree points...I said they gotta be minused because it was a split tree call...

Next drop I see the card and judge and his buddies scores are circled with mine..boys is minused...they were quick to minus the boy but not their selves....that set me on fire...that's dirty and lower than low...

Judge said " they were on the backside of your dogs big tree we couldn't hear them clear...". That's fine and dandy..but you declared them split treed..." we never said they were split!". Judges buddy chimes in..nope I never said mine was split!". I laid the facts out...you pointed your lights 45 degrees right and said tree them there...you said they are treed going up the next hollow(we could see the hollows and fingers from the top ridge we were on..) and you kept a separate tree time on your dogs tree...why would you keep a separate tree time if they aren't split?!". Absolutely no answer... I told em just correct it and take your minus...you minused the young boy for the same thing! Wouldn't do it...I made them question it...but it didn't matter...they continued their shenanigans and made sure I wouldn't win...

Sad part is the boy rode with the guide (judges buddy) so the entire ride he probably told him all kinds of lies and how I was an idiot yadayadayada....the boy actually knew the rules pretty well..i was impressed...hopefully he knows better...



One of the biggest things in common with my bad hunts is 1-2 coon bad weather nites...minusing my den trees etc....I am packin a coon dog...but cold weather this time of year means a good bit of dens...

I think my best option to keep me sane is going to hunts during better weatherwhere we will score more coon...much harder to not see a coon than minus a den...and if ttheir dogs back mine like they usually do they will want their plus points....and keep track of the bad clubs and just not go back...will limit my hunts... will take longer to title my dogs...but I may be happier...


Had my heart set on going to the walker days pup hunt...but after the other nite I have almost no desire...if I drive all that way and spend that money and crap like that happens and I will be super upset....I should probably just stay home...my buddy can take my pup if he wants...he was going to hunt Lee Crawford but the dog we have qualified is super hard to call now..he'd be happier hunting my pup with a big mouth easy to call...and there is a local RQE that Saturday I can go to...

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'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Mauser just one tip for the future on the split tree deal, a quick glance at the card would tell you if they went on the card as split, You had first tree for 125, if they went on the card as split they would show 125 and 75, if they were not on the card as split they would show 75 and 50 on the card. Lots of times a guy will say he thinks his dog may be split but unless the judge announces to the cast that he is putting that dog on the card as split he shouldnt be down for 125.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Last edited by john Duemmer on 03-24-2013 at 11:40 PM

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

if you get cheated in a hunt you do not have anyone to blame except your self, there is steps to follow and if you follow theses steps UKC will look into it . they will start keeping track of things and sooner or later they will step in.

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Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 480

JIM is good as they get!

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Put GOD first, Family second, job third and coon hunting as a hobby not as a priority.

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