Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 1130

Just got my Nov. bloodlines and read through the world championship stuff. All three contenders in the final cast didnt even have close to all grand pedigrees. I think it is funny that some of the best coondogs in the world are just country coondogs, while some people wont hunt a dog if it is not all grand. Just wishing some people would open their eyes cause they are ruining the sport with cheating and trying to get the win on a dog that cant tree a coon, and breeding the wrong dogs together just for the titles. I just had to laugh.

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John 3:16
You'd better believe it!

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 1599

the thing i havnt been able to figure out is that u can hunt the same dog in night hunts 100 times to make it night champ eventually u are gonna be put up against some bad dogs to get a win i think they should put a limit on how many hunts or something eventually every dog is gonna get a win

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

glad you just got yours i got mine on Thursday, whats the hold up in MO?? and best dog i had was a country dog an BAWL mouthed, but was good

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: sparta, missouri
Posts: 407

WELL I HAVE TO SAY THIS I HUNT WITH TRACKMAN EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE AND HE IS SUPER NICE HOUND. I AM NOT TRYING TO BE A SMART A$$ BUT I BET I HAVE A YOUNG ALL GRAND PUP THAT I WILL PUTT IT TO U AND I 2 MORE OUT OF DIGGER AND FA MOUS THAT ARE ALL MOST 5 MO OLD AND ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1190

If you are breeding COONDOGS TO COONDOGS, and it just so happens they end up being ALL GRAND then that is one thing, but to many people are breeding just to get the ALL GRAND PEDIGREE. Most of the ALL GRANDS I have seen, are SCATTERED BRAINED. I'm sure there are some nice ALL GRANDS, I just havn't seen many.

Last edited by Blister 1 on 11-08-2004 at 04:29 AM

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

The thing is that if all the ancesters are grand nite then the chances of you getting a good pup should be a little higher don't you think. also for the country coon dogs winning the world I will gurantee you that there is a lot higher margin of luck to winning that thing than there is talent. Don't get me wrong, it takes a coon dog to get it done but look how many casts you have to get through to make it to the big show. Do you think that all guides are equal and that you will just always get a good one and then you have to hope the coon are moving. After you get these equal guides then you still better have some luck on your side. If you don't beleave me then go try it for your self.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

IM NOT SAYIN that the chances are better if its an all-grand pup, i had one that was all grand on the top and he would be able to throw all grand, and it was a redbone pup,

and

jeremiah, i live in lebanon have have never been with TRACKMAN

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: sc
Posts: 151

i have to agree all grand dogs are way overated look at some of the dogs of the past house lipper stylish lipper sackett jr were any of these dogs 7 0r 8 gen all grand i don think so all the all grand ped is for is to jack up the price of the pups so an average man cant afford them and some of yall may have some good all grand competion dogs but are they coondogs i think probally not theres probally and old farmer somewhere with a part bluetick rebone walker tied up with a rope that could burn ole rats butt slame up all grand pups yall can have cause i sure dont want em

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HOME OF: DOUBLE S'S GOTA HAV FAITH

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Warsaw, New York
Posts: 4242

There are no gurantees with any cross.

You can get a good hound with a crossbred dog.

Nobody is telling you that you have to breed to or buy an all grand dog. If you don't want to pay what some of the all grand pups are going for fine. If you don't like the fact that an advertiser touts the pedigree fine. What it tells me is there is a family of dogs that people took the time and effort to hunt and compete and make it a Grand. You can't possibly say that all dogs in an all grand pedigree made Grand by winning easy hunts or cheating or slick handlers. There have been some real nice, consistent hounds out of all grand pedigrees. So I could easily say using your reasoning that people who knock all grand pedigrees don't know squat!!

I am not color blind, I am not pedigree blind, but I am studying the bloodlines all the time and looking for crosses that have the potential to make good dogs. No gurantees, just using common sense to increase my odds to get the type of dog I like, we are all different and like different things in our dogs. So laugh if you want, if a dog is a reproducer or comes from a family of reproducers I'll check it out regardless of pedigree. Take care!

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Doug Robinson

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: COLLINS MO.
Posts: 477

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THE ALL GRAND WALKER PEDIGREES IS THAT ALL THE DOGS ARE BRED ABOUT THE SAME. AS THEY ARE BRED TO PRODUCE ANOTHER GENERATION OF ALL GRAND PUPS THE TRAITS ARE INTENSIFIED. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BREEDING FOR ALL TRAITS ARE NOT DESIRABLE. MAYBE WHAT THE WALKER BREED NEEDS NOW IS ANOTHER LINE OF DOGS THAT COMPLIMENT THESE ALL GRAND DOGS AND ADDS A STRONG TRAIT TO HELP WHERE THESE LINES ARE LACKING.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 439

Doug - I have read / posted on this subject a couple of times. I think you explained what I thought better than I.

I think that if a person does there homework you can find a dog to breed to or buy a pup from that performs at their expectation and has an all grand pedigree.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I don't have a lot of faith in the "all grand" breeding if it is done only to produce an "all grand litter" either.

How many people breed to a stud without ever seeing him perform in the woods? How many breed to a stud without seeing his offspring in the woods?

I hunt a lot of dogs, and breed a log of the Sytlish Clover line of dogs...never will be all grand because they stripped ole Whitey's title.....most of them are coon dogs any night of the week.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

It seems to me there's alot more going on with getting a dog to the final cast, than just a pedigree.

I think its just as much of a mistake to say AG pedigrees mean nothing as it is to say they mean everything. Reality is somewhere between these extremes.

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Registered: Sep 2004
Location:
Posts: 262

I guess I don't really care if a dog is all grand or not, but I do want good breeding. The first thing I ussually ask is how old the sire and dam are and how old they were when they accomplished their grandnite status. Any dog could do it 5-6 years and 100's of competitions. Those are the stats that matter to me. However when you see all those grand's on the pedigree it is proof positive that the dogs are well bred by someone and in most cases better than some pup out of two no name hounds. I like to see the proof that someone took the time and cared enough to finish their dog before they started producing pups. If you were lucky enough to get a good hound with some weak papers thats great, but serious competition hunters ussually want something that they know has the potential. So do they take your word or the proof on the paper. I know what I do. How about you.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: texas
Posts: 908

i have never bought a dog just by their pedigree. lets go huntin with this dog in your place and mine. some folks know how to show you how a dog hunts on their on place and make them look like a super dog. lets hunt him alone and with other dogs lets hunt several times not just one hunt. some ol dogs are sumtime dogs be super dog tonight tomorrow night they are not worth a dime. dont hurt to hunt with a pups parents but that is still no sure fired garuntee how the pups gonna turn out. i have seen real good dogs that had pups that werent worth a dime. i have seen some dogs that was just average or below throw some top notch pups.

i dont rely on what folks tell me a dog can and will do. far as references on dogs well the folks they telling you to ask are their friends more then likely. references are for job interviews. for as dogs in books or big ol advertisements? well thats kinda like going by the pedigree. i dont doubt their word but i like to see for myself to resolve my doubts.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

are contradicting everything ole Rev. Ball says in his ads..... Good indicator but no guarantee........

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Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: LONESTAR
Posts: 109

its all about percentages............STUPID

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: sparta, missouri
Posts: 407

blacklab i have hunted with trackman probly 10 times and he looked good every time not saying he is perfect but way above average

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

you believe Ball I'm not the stupid one ................

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Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

I agree with slicktree. I dont overlook titles. I think there a good thing and they do stand for something. NOT EVERYTHING BUT SOMETHING!!!! A couple years ago I stopped believing people. I want to GO HUNTING WITH DOGS AND SEE FOR MYSELF WHAT THEY DO!!!!!!! Thats what I like. If GOD says it I believe it, everybody else has to show me there dogs in the woods. I took a chance last summer and bought a 6 week old puppy. I do not regret this one like I have so many others I have bought. I had never, ever, gone with the sire or dam of this puppy. I'll admit it, I just looked in the magazines and tried to make a descesion based solely on word of mouth and percentages and "good crosses". I took a gamble and came out good so far with the little dog. So many times before I wasnt so fortunate. I actually look forward to hunting tonight!!!!!!!! Man!!!! can you believe that???????!!!!! Just a little note to give credit where it is due and say thank you to Lee Smith of Oklahoma!!!!! My little pup is out of Bullet 2 and twin springs Nikki. He is double Bullet bred. The mother and father are half siblings out of old running bullet. He has lots of energy and is getting it done nicely here lately. oh yeah......... just a HUGE PLUS also......... he's not mean or shy either!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS SAYING A LOT NOWDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

on a three gereration pedigree gives a guy pretty good odds the pup is from hunting stock.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: LONESTAR
Posts: 109

i wasnt calling you stupid,that is what ball says in his ads
but
if you dont think ball knows what he doing then you are the stupid one

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Salem,Missouri
Posts: 4917

seems like some folks are breeding papers instead of coondogs.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

Heard someone tell me he knew lots of people who used to do this......... Say a guys got one really good coondog and one dog that is mediocre at best. The mediocre dog has REALLY GOOD PAPERS, the really good dog has no-name papers. Drive several hours to a hunt where no one knows who you are. Take really good dog with mediocres dog's really good papers. Make mediocre dog a ........... "grand nite champion". Anyone else heard of this happening???

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1190

I remember a ALL GRAND cross that was plastered all over the magazines a few years back, that cross didn't pan out to well. Just goes to show, just because they are all grand DOESN'T MEAN your going to get a great cross. I know some guys going about it the right way now though. I think you will see a improvement in there ability before to long, out of different blood than whats out there now. JMO

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