Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

I just watched the rabbit hunting episode for the 2nd time and have a concern........

First , I'd like to say that I try to watch every episode with an open mind. I try to watch it like I've never hound hunted before and this is a first for me. ( and maybe I analyze everything too much )
So , this is merley an observation from trying to look at it from a non-houndsmans viewpoint and consider this as a constructive suggestion and not an attack.

You guys seemed to be knocking shotgunners with all the " Sporting chance " statements. (and there were quite a few)
You made it sound like if you go into a place with a shotgun , you're going to wipe the rabbits out.
Just because a shotgunner could , doesn't mean that he would.

I think it would have been better if it were stated that " I prefer to hunt with this weapon because I enjoy it. Some folks prefer this , and some folks prefer that , but this is what I enjoy." And leave it at that.

Kinda like the " cut-throat " comment from the squirrel hunters about the coon hunters.( if I remember right )
Again , it should have been " Some prefer this , but I prefer that. "

Some things are better off left unsaid so as not to be taken the wrong way.

Maybe it's just me , but just an opinon as to how a non-houndsman might take it.

And I only put it on here so that others can voice their opinions also and that way you'd have a better feel for what everybody thinks.

Again , this is not an attack , only a suggestion.

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jackbob, that was my take also

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
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Bob,

That was not the case at all.

Dustin (the fellow that Dave was hunting with) is faced with the same thing that many of us in and around this area are faced with....shrinking areas to hunt. the "good" places are leased for deer hunting, leaving small patches of timber that deer hunters mostly turn their noses up at....and very few of those exist.

His personal choice was to leave the shotgun at home while hunting his dog. What he was saying is that in these ten acre patches, he is able run his dog more often with success. I guess he measures his success differently than a tailgate full of rabbits.

Please don't confuse the novelty of airing the view of this individual with the belief that every rabbit hunter should hunt rabbits with a pistol or compound bow.... I've spent many hours with a pack of beagles and my trusty 28 gauge side by side (for my money, no better shotgun for a bouncing bunny), and many days have taken my limit of rabbits.... My situation was much different. I had thousands of acres to hunt rabbits, and an endless supply of them...so we didn't think twice about putting a party of five or even ten guys together to harvest rabbits.

I want to thank you for your frank approach and thanks to the others for your criticism. We certainly are not getting rich doing this, and sponsorship dollars that make it possible are tough to come by or nearly impossible.

Season 1 was a learning experience for us, and we hope to continue to improve the quality of the show. We are faced with making tough decisions about the content of the show against our limited budget. Sure, it would be wonderful to have several thousand dollars to travel different places, and have six cameras to cover all the action of a pack of beagles. Guess what....we don't have that luxury. Maybe some day...but not today.

It's easy to be a critic, and to hang on every word that is said and tear it apart. We know that we are putting ourselves out there and making ourselves targets for everyone that is willing to watch the show. We are trying to entertain, the show is not so much about killing the most game...it's a story about an individual that chooses to hunt hounds, and enjoy the added challenge of harvesting rabbits in a different manner than the "norm". I'm here to tell you that just filming beagles on a rabbit hunt is a real challenge, being in the right place at the right time, having the sound equipment cooperate with you, and capturing the real essence of the hunt is tough. Couple that with the constant comparison to the deer and turkey shows where the game hunted is the hero, and the hunter is just a part of the story, and we have many challenges.

Again, thanks for the honest thoughts. I'd be grateful if you would share with us what you think a good episode would look like!

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Last edited by Oak Ridge on 02-12-2010 at 11:55 AM

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Location: INDIANA
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It's great to have a program to promote, talk about, and share the experience of our sport. You never know when an outsider is going to tune in to an episode and learn about our game! It could prevent a dog shooting because people would have an idea of what's going on if our dogs end up treed in their back yard! Keep up the good work guys and thank you Tailgate Adventures for your donations to the Hoosier Tree Dog Alliance!!

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" I guess he measures his success differently than a tailgate full of rabbits. "

This is what I'm talking about Joe.
That statement right there could be taken to mean that he thinks he's better than folks that do kill alot of rabbits.
I know that's not the case , but some folks are gonna take it as a " dig " about their way of hunting. And , like it or not , because it's on your show , folks are gonna think you feel the same way and quit watching.
I would think that if you wanted your audience ( and therefore sponsorship dollars) to grow , that you might want to try and keep anything negative , or that could be taken that way , out of the show.

" It's easy to be a critic, and to hang on every word that is said and tear it apart. "

And then that statement........
Kinda makes it sound like you think I'm just wating for you to make a mistake so I can jump on you about it.
Not so. Just trying to make suggestions to help the show grow.
Even offered for you guys to come up and do 3 shows ( rabbit , squirrel , and coon ) in one trip to help save you guys some money.
But , I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on.
Thanks for the shows , I'll keep watching for awhile.

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Now Bob.... I think you know me better than that....

I'm not trying to take away from what you are saying, just that there are different ways of looking at things.

I'm not doing a very good job of saying what I mean I guess. When I say "it's easy to be a critic"...what I mean is that if I put the show out there for 10,000 people to watch....one of them is going to LOVE it, and another is going to HATE it. It really doesn't matter if it's coon hunting or turkey hunting...someone is going to have a different opinion about the show than someone else. That's what makes this country so great!

I thought in this episode in question, we drew attention to the novelty of how Dustin chooses to harvest rabbits. I remember a show about pheasant hunting where guys were shooting pheasants with a long bow, blunt tips and HUGE feathers on the arrows. Wonder if anybody drew the opinion that a fellow should not take a shotgun to the pheasant field with them?

I guess by highlighting the fact that there is more than one way to enjoy your hound, it somehow became a negative?

I'll take the criticism. Goodness knows that the show is not where we want it to be. We had some footage of Dave and Dustin hunting with a shotgun as well....but no good footage of the dog, of the game, and no rabbit was taken that day....basically kinda boring.... so what do you do? Include the boring footage to cover your own base?

We have invitations to come to the south were they run deer with dogs. Sounds like a great episode, but we are afraid to do that episode because of teh stigma associated with it. We have invitations to film boar hunts, where they use catch dogs...sounds like a great episode, but can we really air two or three pit bulls hanging off the jowls and ears of a pig? Not without some sever consequences.

So as the editor and director of the show, I'm hanging onto the edge. If I over edit and take some comments out...I'm covering up and leaving out how some folks think...if I leave it in...I'm over exposing the sport. It's difficult to know where to stand, and it's impossible to please everyone!

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Everybody is too sensitive these days.All my friends know if we go rabbit hunting with the beagles that they can take a shotgun if they want but there gonna get teased all day.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge


I guess by highlighting the fact that there is more than one way to enjoy your hound, it somehow became a negative?

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as long as the deer hunting and hog hunting shows where done in a legal manner why not? Isnt this show supposed to open the eyes of fellow sportsman? be it people who own hounds already or the someone just channel surfing. Or is it for just the ones who dont own hounds?

Let me see if I get this right so far:
episode 1 Walker coon hunt
episode 2 Squirrel hunt
episode 3 Walker coon hunt
episode 4 Redbone coon hunt
episode 5 Walker coon hunt
episode 6 Beagle hunt
episode 7 (next week)guess what another Walker coon hunt.

This show is already beginning to look and feel like the regular whitetail show on the outdoor networks, a lot of the same with the odd episode in there every now and again. So I take it there will be a walker episode every other week?

It did bring to light the novelty of the way Dustin hunts but Bob is right, you used "to give them a sporting chance" in at least every scene of this weeks episode. It should of been this is the way Dustin likes to hunt and left at that.
Wakendka, no ones being to sensitive, isnt the propose of this show to portray hound hunting in a positive light? Well maybe they are since they wont do a hog hunting or deer hunting episode. Since it might offend some houndsmen. If it was just giving the shotgunners a hard time, giving shotgunners a hard time in the woods with your friends is different than giving shotgunners a hard time on national tv when your trying to promote a sport in a positive light.
The Discovery channel featured hog hunting with hounds sprinkled throughout the Hog Bomb show, and pulled it off tastefully. I take it a coyote hunting episode is outa the question then too.

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Bob,

I wasn't prepared with this early this morning, but I went back and looked at that episode (and made a copy of the part we are discussing for those that have not seen it"


Dave: Your hunting with a pistol?
Dustin : "I've learned that if you hunt with a shotgun, and your like me and you don't have that many places to hunt, that you run out of rabbits really fast. If you start usin' different sources like a pistol it gives them a little more of a chance and they get away alot more, so therefore you have more places, you get to keep coming back to the places and keep huntin them.
Dave: Well you're a conservationist
Dustin: Laughs

Now granted, Dave suggested that Dustin was a conservationist...and I guess the missing piece of the puzzle is that Dave and Dustin are life long friends, and that is Dave's attempt at "cutting up" with Dustin.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doogie Dawg
as long as the deer hunting and hog hunting shows where done in a legal manner why not? Isnt this show supposed to open the eyes of fellow sportsman? be it people who own hounds already or the someone just channel surfing. Or is it for just the ones who dont own hounds?

Let me see if I get this right so far:
episode 1 Walker coon hunt
episode 2 Squirrel hunt
episode 3 Walker coon hunt
episode 4 Redbone coon hunt
episode 5 Walker coon hunt
episode 6 Beagle hunt
episode 7 (next week)guess what another Walker coon hunt.

This show is already beginning to look and feel like the regular whitetail show on the outdoor networks, a lot of the same with the odd episode in there every now and again. So I take it there will be a walker episode every other week?

It did bring to light the novelty of the way Dustin hunts but Bob is right, you used "to give them a sporting chance" in at least every scene of this weeks episode. It should of been this is the way Dustin likes to hunt and left at that.
Wakendka, no ones being to sensitive, isnt the propose of this show to portray hound hunting in a positive light? Well maybe they are since they wont do a hog hunting or deer hunting episode. Since it might offend some houndsmen. If it was just giving the shotgunners a hard time, giving shotgunners a hard time in the woods with your friends is different than giving shotgunners a hard time on national tv when your trying to promote a sport in a positive light.
The Discovery channel featured hog hunting with hounds sprinkled throughout the Hog Bomb show, and pulled it off tastefully. I take it a coyote hunting episode is outa the question then too.

---

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I thought the show did a good job of explaining Dustins position, I guess I didnt interprit it negatively at all.

Just about every show has a comment or two that could be disected and picked appart...But I think as a whole its a solid show.

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lord people this is a new show ,let them get there feet wet and im sure they will keep getting better, rome wasnt built in a day !!!

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Was that 2 deer that ran past in the background of the video ??

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quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Kinda like saying " I hunt with Walkers because they're the best thing going." Kinda stings the guys hunting the other breeds.
Or , you could say " I hunt Walkers because that's the breed I enjoy." And nobody thinks nothing of it.
Understand?

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Location: indiana
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i agree. it is new and it takes time to get it right. i have yet to see it . i have talk to them on doing a show and still might for training sales and help show the youth what is out there to do after dark other than p/c games and all that.. plus girls hunt too.

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Oakridge
Just get ahold of one of us leopard owners and maybe we can get together for a hunt one night. I know several of us that would be willing to travel to get a chance to show the dog hunters out there our leopards. I am very proud of mine and they have provided me with alot of great nights in the woods with friends.


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Dustin : "I've learned that if you hunt with a shotgun, and your like me and you don't have that many places to hunt, that you run out of rabbits really fast. If you start usin' different sources like a pistol it gives them a little more of a chance and they get away alot more, so therefore you have more places, you get to keep coming back to the places and keep huntin them.

Joe , it's not just the " conservationist " comment. And this was not the only " more of a chance " comment.

Dustins comment could be taken as " if you hunt with a shotgun , you'll kill all the rabbits out. "
Now , let's say a farmer has seen this and took it that way. Now , I go knock on the door to ask permission to hunt. Farmer says " What you hunting with?"
I say , " 410 single shot shotgun."
Farmer says , " Shotgun? Nope. Sorry , I don't want all my rabbits shot off."
Now , it ain't gonna matter to him that that might be the one time all year that I actually carry a gun. And only plan on killing 1 or 2 rabbits for supper. All he's gonna think about is what was said on that show. And it must be true , they said so on TV.

Now , as far as the catch dogs..............
I believe that if you were to show some guys , that use catch dogs , actually catch the hog alive. Tie it up. Transport it back and release it in a pen , for later consumption , could be a positive thing.
Might eliminate alot of peoples assumption that the catch dogs are used to RIP a pig apart.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by hjames888
lord people this is a new show ,let them get there feet wet and im sure they will keep getting better, rome wasnt built in a day !!!

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Texas7Mag
Was that 2 deer that ran past in the background of the video ??

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Just wanted to say I like the shows I've seen,I havent seen them all,but I will be setting the DVR up to record them when they air again.I hope your funding situation gets better.My buddies and I would like to get you down to the ridges of North West Ga for a hunt

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Thought you where looking for criticism

quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge

....I'll take the criticism. Goodness knows that the show is not where we want it to be.........

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge

We have invitations to come to the south were they run deer with dogs. Sounds like a great episode, but we are afraid to do that episode because of teh stigma associated with it.


thats exactly why you should do it..............dont be scared
i run deer with hounds in virginia and every southern state that allowes it is getting very close to having it taken away,for this reason or that. hound hunters everywhere all across the u.s. need to help each other.who you gonna offend....other houndsmen,i would hope not.if you did an episode witha club that does it right it shouldnt be a problem and give deer houndsmen a boost in their fight

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Oak Ridge, sent you a PM

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Doogie,

I'll take all of the criticism. I'm hearing ya'll....just might not agree with it all...

Dang...I'm just trying to get you guys to understand that as much as we all would like for this to be a home movie about going out with the dogs and all....it can not be that!

You fellows are callin us out (probably a poor choice of words, but best I can think of right now) because we aired a show where the host says "give em a sporting chance" too many times. Can you imagine what would happen if we showed a dead cast in a night hunt?

Guys, we have to entertain. And we are charged with putting the show out there that is entertaining. Gosh I thought that shooting a rabbit with a pistol, and having a rabbit run within 4 feet of you while you are at full draw with a bow WAS entertaining. I can tell you that filming a pair of dogs that ball up and fight...well that's not very entertaining, and it certainly happens, but is not something that I believe any of us would want to highlight on national television. Some might believe it to be entertaining, but I would not. Sure, things go wrong...you bet guys fall down in the dark...and I cant wait to be able to do a "blooper" episode....I still have all of that footage, and I fully intend to some day make an entire episode out of what doesn't go "right".

When you see the hog hunting episode, it is paired with a bear hunt where despite two days of trying....we simply did not get a bear treed. We show that, we say that....we explain why, and we state that we had a GREAT time with our host despite the lack of "success".

You are watching re-runs of the first season....I can't remember the episode number of the boar and bear hunt. But bear with us (no pun intended)....I think you will see that we evolved and got better as the season progressed.

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