Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 131

In a three dog Cast Dogs A, B, C. All dogs are struck in Dog A is declared treed, five minutes go by and we go to dog A while walking dogs B and C come in to Dog A. When we get there Dog A is in a hole in some rocks. Coon is seen. Do dogs B and C get minused on track? or do they get their strike points, even though they weren't declared treed?

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: A LITTLE HOLE IN THE HILL OF SOLDIER KY 41164
Posts: 15479

If the coon was seen and the (5mins was up) they get
minused track only!!!

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Last edited by hardtymes on 02-10-2009 at 03:05 PM

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 131

Where does it state that? On the back of the scorecard it show different. I beleive it says dogs not declared treed are plussed their strike points

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

If the dogs were at the hole with the dog treed then they get their strike plused, they don't have to be treed it specifically says so in the rules.

The dog that was declared treed gets his strike AND tree plussed.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: RICHMOND,MO
Posts: 63

4.
(d) If dog declared treed, after five minutes has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come in to tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.

this is out of the rule book. the card dosent have all the rules on it call ukc and get a book if i was you. and yes this rule is on the card!

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Chris, all the rules ARE on the back of the card, everyone of them. You are useing the wrong rule for this situation. The rule that would apply to this situation is rule 3(b). Dog A gets gets plussed both ways. Dogs B and C get plussed strike points if they were at the hole when the judge arrived.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:

---

Originally posted by CHRIS T
4.
(d) If dog declared treed, after five minutes has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come in to tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.

this is out of the rule book. the card dosent have all the rules on it call ukc and get a book if i was you. and yes this rule is on the card!

---

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: A LITTLE HOLE IN THE HILL OF SOLDIER KY 41164
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YEA YOUR ARE RIGHT<BUT THOUGHT THE 5 MINS WAS UP
AND THE TREE OR HOLE WAS DEAD,AND THE DOG CAME WAKIN IN WITH YOU!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
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I dont think a hole or a caught coon is ever considered "dead".

Dogs that are there get stike plused...Somtimes undeservingly so, but those are the breaks.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3847

Because it was a hole B & C get credit for showing up.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: RICHMOND,MO
Posts: 63

im sorry i read that wrong i thought that they were at the hole or tree and the dogs come in to them.

and i dont think that a hole or a tree can be scored the same as a cought coon.

and y cant a hole be dead after the 5 it is the same as a tree a place of refuge. i think that you get +strike and tree if you see a coon in a hole if the dogs get one cought on the groung it is just +strike points. i havent be in the hunts for 2 years so im kinda rusty

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Its a stupid rule..They should be minused..Specially coming in after the 5.

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I think the reason you can't minus the late comers is because you are not required to run the 5 in this situation. The reason you aren't required to run the 5 is because you can score a hole without treeing any dog. Purty hard to minus a dog for coming in after the 5 when you don't even have to run the 5.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
I think the reason you can't minus the late comers is because you are not required to run the 5 in this situation. The reason you aren't required to run the 5 is because you can score a hole without treeing any dog. Purty hard to minus a dog for coming in after the 5 when you don't even have to run the 5.

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Darn good question.

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 238

I think they would be minus on strike , IF they came in to you after you were at the hole, for quitting thier track...


Jim

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I think they would get plussed. The rule don't say when they come in, and you can't make a hole "dead" because you don't run the 5 on it, it's not needed.

So, since you don't have to run the 5 then any time they get there they would be scored according to what was in hole.

The rule is specific, if a dog is seen at a hole with a coon in it you plus his strike or both if called (the thing is after the dog is called tree rules apply FOR THAT DOG, but the others if not called treed still get scored just for being at or coming into the hole.

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You may be right Rip, prolly are but I think the average cast would have a major problem with a dog walking into a coon in a hole, after the cast has scored it, and getting plussed strike points. I think most would minus that dogs strike.

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Meadville,PA
Posts: 106

I think that you get your strike points and thats it.

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Registered: Aug 2003
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WHERES ALLEN G.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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I was basing my logic on the rules as they are actually written.

I didn't say I agreed with it, just that since you don't run the 5, and the rules plainly say any dog in the vicinity get plussed their strike then you would have to plus it no matter if they came in "late" or not because there can be no "late" if you don't have to run the 5 minute clock(which you don't because you don't even have to tree a dog to score a hole). The rules also have a special provision for dogs called treed, tree rules apply, but not for the rest of the dogs not called treed, therefore there is no "dead" hole.

It's not unlike the old "no strike points to minus" on dogs that came in after being shut out on strike.

That said, UKC could have an advisor I am unaware of that says a hole is dead after you get there, just haven't seen it.

If not Allen or Todd could make that ruling right now and fix it (if they wanted to) but I would think it would have to be put in the Advisor because I can't find a way to get around rule 3b with the way the rules are written. That means until there is an official interpretation otherwise late dogs can still get strike plussed (if they haven't slipped one in on me LOL).

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Last edited by Rip on 02-11-2009 at 02:35 AM

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You are prolly right, just saying I would not want to be the judge that had to explain that one, especially if it was MY dog coming in late.
But I can't find anything in the rules to dispute you.

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Registered: Feb 2009
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b and c strike points are plus

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 131

We scored the tree according to the rule that states Dog A was plus strike and tree and dogs B and C were plus on their strike points. I don't agree with this because they came into dog A after the five was up and a coon was seen. I actually had the judge point it out to me and he did. Didn't make a difference in the cst was just a situation that arose on Saturday night and wanted to make sure it was scored right.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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Even if they changed it to minus dogs that got there after the judge arrived it wouldn't have changed the way your cast was scored cause if I understand it those dogs were there BEFORE the judge arrived.

The 5 don't count once you get there and see it's a hole it's automatic that all dogs there get their strike scored accordingly. Only one dog out of the whole bunch has to show the hole.

What this question has morphed into is what to do if a dog comes meandering in AFTER the judge arrives and you are in the process of scoring the hole.

The problem with that is that according to the way the rules are written even one coming in that late would have to have his strike eligible for scoring since 3b doesn't put a time on it, and the 5 is invalid so you can't really "close" a hole.

All our rule threads seem to do this LOL. We start out with one question and after it's answered someone says "what if this" and we are off again. It can get a mite confusin as to which scenario one is referring to.

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