Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Why aren't more crosses made throughout the bluetick breed ???? Meaning why not get a little of all the good stuff, put it togehter mix it up, and see what you can come up with. All you breeders know what it takes to make this happen, and you are not getting any younger.

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

John, I think there are a couple of reasons this doesn't happen. Jealousy is one. Period.

The other reason is that not all Bluetick breeders are breeding for the same thing. In the Walker breed, it is different. Almost every Walker breeder has the same goal--breeding a hound that can win in the hunts. They are unified in that goal, and with so many of them working toward it, they succeed.

Bluetick breeders on the other hand, aren't all breeding with this only in mind. Many of them are breeding for a specific style of hound that they enjoy hunting, and that style of hound may not be the best suited for competition hunting.

For me, the viability of the Bluetick breed doesn't rest on whether or not Ol'Blue wins the world hunt, though I would be tickled if it happened. I hunt Blueticks because I have found a srain within the breed that pleases me more than anything else I've tried. I'll stick with them until I find something I like better, whether one of them ever wins the world or not.

And I'm not going to completely change the things I like about them trying to breed them more "competitive." For example, as a pleasure hunter, I demand a dog with a good mouth, a bawl mouth. I wouldn't sacrifice the mouth on a cross with the quickest locating, layup treeingest, Walker dog scorchingest coon machine, if that dog was a chop mouthed track dog. Call me stupid if you like, but I know what I like, and the strain I hunt is plenty quick enough for me, at least the good ones are.

Furthermore, I won't breed to a snip nosed, short-eared dog under any circumstances, I don't care how many coon he trees. Your average Walker man isn't worried about those kind of things. They want a winner, regardless of how it looks or sounds.

Personally, I hope the Bluetick breed never goes that way. And if that means the Walker dogs stay on top of the competition world, big deal.

But the truth is, there are dogs in the breed that are capable of winning the World Hunt. They just don't all get entered.

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It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

I concur 100% with John... Now those within our ranks that want to scorch the tailfeathers off the Holstein boys and don't have the pleasure hunter in mind, only trophies, titles or money hunt wins... Should by all means band together breed what wins to what wins, no matter by what means, and go for it with all the GUSTO in the world....Its not the "cup of tea" for most Bluetick Fanciers I know, but if you want it go after it.... I want em cold nosed, big bawl mouthed, open and quick on track, hard treeing,but they got to check a tree not grab em like lightning and come up empty 60 % of the time....

Wayne

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Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

John V.

My question to you is what makes you think that this has not been done before?? What have you tried to breed and add to your bloodline?? Maybe more breeders than you know have already tried different lines, introduced different blood and just maybe it did not click.

As John C. said many breeders breed for different things, some want dogs that can compete in the hunts only, some look for a more balanced hound, some try to straddle the fence and get both, but as a small breeder (if I can call myself that) many crosses have been tried and some with success and others that ended up with more culls than coon dogs.

To make the simple phrase that my Grandfather use to say;
"When you mix Water with Dirt, You end up with MUD".

Over the last several years there has been some Bluetick breeders who have choosen to breed for a lines name only who had the rescourses to get out there and introduce new blood. They choose not to, and others have tried mixing in new blood, and only they know the results, by my way of looking at it, if it had worked they would have kept on doing it, and we would be reading about them in the hunt results every month.

As Mr Carroll put it, some are breeding for the scorecard type dog, which is fine and others for what they think is classified as the pleasure hound. I have found a smart, easy to train, good mouth, trash free, smart...did I say that already coon dog that trees real live coon can on most nights win in a night hunt. Will we ever win the World hunt??? Who cares, I would hate to think what would happen if we did;

Can you imagin if we got a Blue dog let's say from just a general ole cross, no big names or anything like that, just a back yard cross, he might have been the only dog of the entire cross that made a half way coon dog, he gets a few lucky nights and WHAM!! He is the world champion......Do you realy want folks flooding the coon hound world with that blood???

Now, before you say it can't happen, just a few years ago we had a Bluetick from just such a cross, did very well in some capable hands and did very well in the Purina race, and to this day even though he was breed to several females (due to his winning in the Purina race) he did not produce a good percentage of coon dogs. To me that would be our (BLUETICK Breed) biggest fear. Yes it would be found out if he did not reproduce but not till a year or so later and how many litters would be out there flooding the market and having us taking a step backwards instead of forwards.............

This is just my opinion, one from a small time breeder who likes to coon hunt, show dogs and also compete in the hunts, give me a coon dog anytime and I'll be happy !!

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

Last edited by Mark A. Hauck on 08-15-2003 at 03:07 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

If the boys whos only intent is to whip the holsteins do get together, which I doubt would ever happen, I pray they fail !!!! Blueticks as with all breeds need to always and continue to improve but never need to become a competition only type of hound... Wins mean nothing, coons in trees in January do !!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I dont see u tryin that, all we hear from u is hammer, hammer, hammer, hammer and u criticize anything anyone else has.......ask dave why he dont, maybe he can tell u......I am gonna be tryin to cross some diff blood in, not so much out crosses, but different crosses within the blood, with a lil added here and there, like a jet bottom side, or out of an utchman stud, back on smokey river......

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 84

WHERE THE HECK WERE ALL YOU FINE FELLERS AT A YEAR OR TWO AGO WHEN I WAS STICKING UP FOR BAWL MOUTHED, ACCURATE TREEING, BLUETICKS AND I WAS GETTING CALLED EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN FOR IT BY THESE DANG WALKER BOYS!!!!!!!!!! I WAS FOR BLUETICKS WHEN IT WASN'T COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TANK, JIM, CHUBB, JERRY, WAYNE, WHISTLE PIG AND THIS IS JUST TO NAME A FEW WERE GIVEING ME A VERBAL CRUCIFIXTION ON THIS DANGED BOARD LAST YEAR FOR SAYING I WOULD RATHER HAVE AN ACCURATE PLEASURE DOG THAN A 200 BARK A MINUTE, SLICK TREEING, HUNT WINNER WITH A CHEATING, PAID, HANDLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAS THE POWER ON THIS BOARD SHIFTED SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY AND I JUST MISSED IT OR SOMETHING????????? A YEAR OR SO AGO IF A MAN EVEN MENTIONED THE FACT THAT HE THOUGHT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE AN ILL DOG IN A HUNT OR THAT THE BEST DOG DIDNT ALLWAYS WIN HE WAS TREATED LIKE A RED- HEADED STEP KID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE THE HECK WERE YOU GUYS AT WHEN I NEEDED YOU????????????????????????????????????????????

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

my daddy taught me to walk quietly and carry a big stick, til I knew where i was, and what I was about........but I am in the same boat with ya, I would rather have a pleasure hound than a comp any day.......they may not get first tree, but they dont slick, and when they open their heads, u know its cause they are smellin ricky.......

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

I was with ya on the other board when the boys wanted to tar and feather ya.... You just hit em where it hurt most with the truth...I didn't post cause I'm too easy to find....LOL LOL

__________________
Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

Yeah but I was always with ya SHEEP!

TCB

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

Mr John V, you still have not answered my post. Tell us what you have done, and if you know the answer to our troubles, just put it right here. Hey, if I'm missing something you know about let us all in on it.

and sheep, I agree to a point, but I don't want no Boo Hooing take 20 minutes to go 100 yrds dog, I want a running dog, head in the air running the track and finding the right tree, and it should not take him 15 minutes to figure out if it is the right tree. Some folks call that Unique, I call it going backwards. Yes, give me a dog with smarts and they will make a coon dog.

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

do you want a blue dog that looks good on the table
and ,
when turned loose, dont stand under your feet
and
has the meat when you get to the tree ,even with leaves on it
and
dont come back till you get him/her off the tree??
and
don't take all night doing it
and
sounds good doing it????


then talk to these folks on here that own or hunted with pups out of warren sturtz's rock dog.

i hunted with the ben dog of warren's and they say ben's littermates and half-littermates all hunt the same way.

i have hunted with 2 world champion's both top coondogs in anyones book.

MACK'S LITTLE JOE and SPARETIME SPANKY

and

this ben dog can give any dog of their caliber a run for their money.....

and talking to dan and some of these other bluetickers that have the same type of dog ,,,,the next bluetick world champion is out there NOW
and
just getting them into the hands of someone WHO CAN put the time and money into promoting them is all that is needed.

the breeding you are talking about is already done ,,

they just need the top promoting they deserve which you know takes alot of money and time.

i preferr to look at the walker dog (and i feed about 15 of them) but when these ticked up dogs have the same good comformation and dont take all nite to tree a coon and sound good doing it,i will be feeding some of them too.(have 1 now and 2 more of those ticked things on the way)

i think the reason there are a lot more better blueticks nowadays is that its not as hard to pull a trigger on an ticked up dog that dont do what it's breed to do ..my opion...

lol.

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740-255-3087
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wildbills101@hotmail
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http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

I have never told you or anyone that I have done anything, but it sure as fire don't take a smart person to see neither have you.. That stock you hunt I know nothing about, but do know one kennel has done well with that line, and in a record time so this tells me that line does have potential, but no better than any of the rest that have been around for so long. I noticed on the hall of fame ballot that 3 male hounds and 2 females hounds were nomniated out of this line for the hall of fame thats getting them in quick isn't it.

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

OH John V,

I'll try one more time, but after this your on your own as I've explained this more times than I call to, and to your statement..no more than any of the other dogs that are already in there.

Each Zone is allowed to nominate 5 dogs to the ballet for the National ballet. Zone's 1, 5, and 3 did just what they were suppose to do and came to the meeting prepared and ready. All I can say is the members of Zone 5 (which by the way you are in) must have felt strongly about the dogs they nominated becasue the Board of Directors and Officers got an overwhelmingly number of nomination request from its members. Now, did you send in your nomination picks???? Hummmmmmmm Now we only got the living dogs out of the process of the Hall of Fame 2 years ago, and I feel we still have some work to be done on the HOF. But when I look at the ballot, I see dogs from all kinds of bloodlines.

As for your statement about what I've done, LOL well don't worry about it John I'm not out here claiming that I've got the answers, nor am I out here saying I've got the bloodline to that will save the world of the Bluetick. I never said I would produce the next world champion (tho I wish I could) and I have not said that my line of dogs is the saving grace of the Bluetick bloodline. I'm happy with what I hunt, and I'm happy to say so are many others who hunt this blood, and those who choose to try this line with the purchase of a pup end up as friends and happy hunters.

I breed for what I WANT John, and for WHAT I LIKE. One thing for sure is I'm pretty hard to satisfy. I demand alot from my dogs, and I will put them before the publics eye in competition from time to time winning sometimes, and losing sometimes. That's the nature of the beast, but I can handle that. All hunts are not man-eat-man like some folks say, matter of fact I've always had alot of fun on most cast, so with that being said, come on in and test the water, maybe we'll draw and hunt together.

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Excuse me for not understanding whatever you tried to explain to me, and if you have tried to explain what ever it is you are talking of to anyone else then I say old chap you best try another method. As far as me understanding as to how this complicated club does things well...........you seem to give it a 100 % !!!!!!!!!!!!! Now let me straighten you out on a thing or two.........I really think that each, and every one that post on here have dogs that tree coon, but you can bet there are some better than others, some bloodlines have been around longer than others ( being noticed ). You ask me how that I knew that all crosses hasn't been made...........well I don't know that they haven't, and if they have we are out of luck ever doing ourselves any better.......This is for Murphy........The dogs that I had here out of the cross we discussed were not worth feeding, and I did not say your hound/hounds were'nt dogs that will tree coon all I can tell you the ones I had aren't here now. So if you wish to come here for a hunt you are more than welcome I have no Grand nite champion to hunt with your champions, but you will find they get the job done, and if you like to see dogs that will get into the dark quick, and get struck on a coon ( no babbling , no back tracking ) ..........I do owe Littlejohn an apology for what I said about his large dogs..........I have one here that is as big as Jet V. was, and he has always been as fast as a smaller dog......Enough of this ignorence by all........But fellow bluetickers try to remember all of the old time breeders not just a handful, and give credit where credit is due.........Without having to explain that last comment you all know what I mean...............Happy Blueticking................

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 31

Mark hauck has taken BBOA to the next level.He sraightened out the bluebook problem,got the hall of fame going along with the Invitational and brought alot of bluetickers back to the hunts,for those that want to sit on the sidelines and bitch,well thats all yuore good for.Make this association better or get the hell out .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

Marc H. no doubt has done the best he can that has never been in question by me or anyone else............He certainly works had enough at it, and surrounds himself with people that are dedicated to help out in every way they can. As far as telling anyone to get out ( bluedog 205 ) that statement is childish..........

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

it takes more than one person to run any organization. success can only be determined by the input and help, of all! marlo arp did a heck of a job on the blue book as well. no easy task ! it is a beautiful yearly annual of interest to anyone wanting to read as well as see ads on different bluetickers...gee! sound like an ad myself...rofl!! there will always be jealousy among the breeds and people involved! nothing new to bluetickers i'm sure. however, i only concern myself with one's who choose to "promote themself" rather than the dedicated person who is genuine in their efforts. i've seen too many come and far too many go. priorities change as we grow older, but the dedicated ones persevere no matter what. the two-faced individual, can only fool the public for so long. and they quickly go by the wayside. any officer is capable of asking for "ANY" help from their membership..but if a person isn't asked for in-put, if no one knows the needs of their ass'n...then don't blame any membership when only a so called "handful" appear to be doing it all...as for asking someone to "get out"...seems a lil harsh, as they are entitled to their own opinion. one only learns by their comments and their questions, as to whether or not they wish to participate in any breed assoication. and comments here can also determine the public's own opinion of such.

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AMAZEN COONHOUNDS

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

gIVE ME A BOTTLE AND LET ME THINK ON THAT ONE!!!!TCB

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

WOOOOOOOOhhhh There Trigger

I've never asked anyone to NOT belong to any organization they so choose to support. From the very first day that I accepted the position I told my officers we as a group could disagree, just not be disagreable.

At the National level, State Level, Club Level, I've always said you get out of it what you put in to it, if you wait to be asked, then don't hold your breath very long, because things are moving to fast and those who want to be involved just stand up, yell, hollar, SCREAM !!! and we'll be glad to let you work on anything you would like............trust me, I NEVER turn down FREE help.

The 7 Zones have put into place their selection of Officers that this organization works with. The National Officers are elected by the National membership, but each Zone elects its 3 Board of Directors thus making up the 26 Officers that run BBOA. I think I can say that those individuals have done an outstanding job doing a job that requires alot of their personal time, and they do it for FREE !!!

This board is free, free to all who want to voice an opinion, and facts are added information for all of us to absorb. I like kicking things back and forth, some things make no sense at times but it sure is fun.

See you on the other Side !!!!!!!

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Cartersville, Ga.
Posts: 337

It is beginning to sound like many of the bluetickers believe that we can't breed a hound that can compete with and regularly beat the Walker hounds. As speed merchants and tree huggers with a coon, even in Jan. Boys, it's being done often. If you keep insisting that it can't be done except in a certain fashion with a certain type hound, well you will always be saying that. I understand that you are demanding you bluetick remain a bluetick. But fellows there is definitely room for improvement. I have been blessed to have owned a few that were Walker scorching demons and am still trying to get them better. I have hunted with others blue hounds that were also. But I refuse to stick my head in the sand and decide I won't improve these hounds except on certain terms. It's better to get the improvement and then start getting picky when you have more of them than you can shake two sticks at first. And as a breed we are not there yet. I am not saying you are not right in sticking to your guns. I just think too many of us are getting tunnel vision. But I guess that's what makes the world go round. Everybody can be different. But I won't close my eyes to a hound in the top one percent because of taste. If it's hound enough to make the top one percent, it deserves consideration. Perhaps that is why our different strains shrink and grow. Taste can be good and it can be destructive. But we all have to like what we hunt. My first preference is stomp down, go to the devil, coon dog. I just have to have mine blue. Well, there's my two cents worth. It and thirty three more cents might get you a cup of coffee. Good luck all. Harry.

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Mulberry Blue

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Harry, I like the way you put it. There is no reason we can't breed Blueticks that don't take a back seat to any dog, without losing the distinctives that set our bred apart--things like a big bawl mouth, houndy appearance, and good nose and accuracy.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21

I agree too on that answer if is not out of that bloodline the want use it no matter how good the dog is or pups he has.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Longview Texas
Posts: 801

Look' I have a dog (ROCK) that doesnt lose much of the time, and I hunt against the top Walkers out there! There are other bludogs out there the same way, Pounder, River, Undertaker, Rattler, etc....... the breeders need to come together! Instead of trying to make the same cross again and getting another Rock, Pounder etc.. that usually doesnt work anyway, I have made the cross that produced Rock many times and got large numbers of exceptional hounds but never another like Rock and I bet you other guys have simular results! We need to take all these "Superdogs" and bring them together! I mean directly! Not by useing the same blood that created these dogs but by using these dogs themselves and their sons and daughters. This is a way we can dominate the hunts "bluedog style"

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: cartersville ga
Posts: 883

a good way to put it mulberry!!!!

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