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i think ukc needs to step up and stop reg some of the dogs that are getting reg. all breeds have there standerds and i see a lot of dog's not even close to matching the standerd. what do you all think?? english dogs all white with blue eyes . all black walker dogs. blueticks with solid black backs and heads like walkers . i know every breed is being cross to something trying to improve and i see that point. but where is it going to stop????

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AGREED!!!

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How could they police it without doing inspections? Do we really want to pay to have every dog inspected before it can be registered?

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No but they sure can keep them from becoming Champions and Grand Champions.

Since we are on the subject. Whatever happened to the section in the rule book that showed by breed what each part of the hound was worth point wise? Notice I said by breed. Secondly what happened to the section, by breed , that showed disqualifing traits? Third what about the old phase that mentioned demonstrating of the ability to track and tree coon? These thing have slowly disappeared from the rule books without mention. Everything about the shows have been changed to favor 'show dogs" instead of "coondogs".

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
No but they sure can keep them from becoming Champions and Grand Champions.

Since we are on the subject. Whatever happened to the section in the rule book that showed by breed what each part of the hound was worth point wise? Notice I said by breed. Secondly what happened to the section, by breed , that showed disqualifing traits? Third what about the old phase that mentioned demonstrating of the ability to track and tree coon? These thing have slowly disappeared from the rule books without mention. Everything about the shows have been changed to favor 'show dogs" instead of "coondogs".

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
How could they police it without doing inspections? Do we really want to pay to have every dog inspected before it can be registered?

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
No but they sure can keep them from becoming Champions and Grand Champions.

Since we are on the subject. Whatever happened to the section in the rule book that showed by breed what each part of the hound was worth point wise? Notice I said by breed. Secondly what happened to the section, by breed , that showed disqualifing traits? Third what about the old phase that mentioned demonstrating of the ability to track and tree coon? These thing have slowly disappeared from the rule books without mention. Everything about the shows have been changed to favor 'show dogs" instead of "coondogs".

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quote:

---

Originally posted by truebluefordman
i think ukc needs to step up and stop reg some of the dogs that are getting reg. all breeds have there standerds and i see a lot of dog's not even close to matching the standerd. what do you all think?? english dogs all white with blue eyes . all black walker dogs. blueticks with solid black backs and heads like walkers . i know every breed is being cross to something trying to improve and i see that point. but where is it going to stop????

---

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Have you forgotten that at one time , walkers ,blues and English were all refered to as English, all have the same roots.

NOW AT THE SAME TIME.......

they DID split off into colors, basically, due to personal prefrence of hunters , which in turn did the work to develop thier standards and become recgonized as a seperate breed.

YOUR POST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
" all breeds have there standards and i see a lot of dog's not even close to matching the standerd. what do you all think?? english dogs all white with blue eyes . all black walker dogs. blueticks with solid black backs and heads like walkers . i know every breed is being cross to something trying to improve and i see that point. but where is it going to stop???? "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now , i do agree with you that the breed standard should be followed, but you asked about color? how are incorrectly colored dogs the fault of "show" people? They dont win. And when did, "how much color a dog has on it" become a major concern of hunters?Or affect how a dog hunts?

I do see your point and i do agree that major deviations from the standard need to be penalized. So i am not arguing with you just making a point.

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I think it's far more important what a dog does than what it looks like.

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Back in 2000 they single registered princess. Wonder if they were wrong in doing so?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by smokey7
I think it's far more important what a dog does than what it looks like.

---

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I've met lots of people that thought she was a Black and Tan.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by smokey7
Back in 2000 they single registered princess. Wonder if they were wrong in doing so?

---

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The color variations that you are seeing today are coming from the competition hunters. It has become such a high stakes game to win the big hunts that there has been a loss of concern for the conformation of a hound and more for the ability of the hound. If a walker is blue ticked with a stubby tail and short years that stick up it will be bred to something as long as it can win in the big hunts.

I think that the UKC should get rid of the show champion and nite champion titles and make just a champion title that has the qualification of both CH and NTCH. Leave the grand titles alone but make it so that a dog has to do it on the bench and on the tree in order to achieve champion status.

Just my 2 cents.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by smokey7
I've met lots of people that thought she was a Black and Tan.

---

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by daustin
[B]The color variations that you are seeing today are coming from the competition hunters. It has become such a high stakes game to win the big hunts that there has been a loss of concern for the conformation of a hound and more for the ability of the hound. If a walker is blue ticked with a stubby tail and short years that stick up it will be bred to something as long as it can win in the big hunts.



You are exactly right. There are comp hunters that need to breed more for correct standard and at the same time there are show people who need to bred more for ability.
What we all as lovers of our breeds need to remember is that they are Working dogs, that were bred to be built a certian way . And for a reason, ie.. deep chest=heart and lung capicity, which= endurance, tight feet (on some)= agility, which=manuiverability.
good angulation in the rear and elbows= good drive and ease of speed/manuiverability while hunting.
And the ultimate goal of any breeder should be to produce a dog of correct type as well as ability.Not saying every hunter has to be a "show person" or every show person has to be a "hunter". Just take into consideration the origional function of the dog/breed.

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smokey other than i cant see tan over her eyes she has all bluetick marks she had molting in her hair and she was single reg. now i am not saying show people did this or comp hunters. all hounds started off as english fox hounds we all know that but some think they all look like the redticks of today but i believe they where more walker type than anything. but now we see almost solid white english dogs with tan heads that to me look like a lot of the walker dogs back when i was young. how could we stop this ??? simple we should have to send in a photo of the pup when reg it and then like in the omcba the photo is a perm part of the reg and any new owner can see if the papers match the dog .that alone would stop a lot of paper swaping.and yes if it dont match the breed standerd i think no title should be place on the dog show or comp.
yes i would say all of the breeds of today have cross blood in them but back in the ol day's as some say they had cross blood too. it was norm a cur dog cross, never the less we need to get back to the foundation type hounds. why cant we have long ears and big mouth dog's that can still run a fast track and tree with style?? i am glad to see some great reply's to this and we as hound people need to speak up to our breed groups and voice to them how we feel.

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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what's "molting" ?

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i am sure he means motteling, meaning the whiting through your dogs coat. She dosent have Heavy ticks , but has some.

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yes ladycoonhunter thats is what i ment sorry my spelling is so poor..

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Well no matter how you spell it, it sure makes some good discussion. Show people getting on coonhunters because all they wanna do is tree coons and coonhunters getting on show people because they are too worried about color patterns.

Last edited by on 12-18-2008 at 03:43 PM

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smokey here is another dog that people thinks is a black & tan but she is a walker

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quote:

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Originally posted by ladycoonhuntr
Have you forgotten that at one time , walkers ,blues and English were all refered to as English, all have the same roots.

---

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coon hounds started from fox hounds. exception to this rule is plots and now leaperd.

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