Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Crossville, TN
Posts: 158

I HAVE A QUESTION AND DONT TAKE IT WRONG I DONT UNDERSTAND THE REASON UKC WILL NOT LET USE REG. CROSS BRED HOUNDS AS LONG AS BOTH PARENTS ARE UKC REG AND A TYPE OF COON HOOUND

PKC DOES AND IT SEEM LIKE IT HAS WORKED OUT GOOD FOR THEM

I HAVE A NICE REDBONE FEMALE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BRED TO MY WALKER MALE FOR A PUP FOR ME BUT I WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING RID OF THE REST AND I LIKE TO COMP HUNT AND I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HUNT A CROSS PUP IN A HUNT

WHAT DOES EVEYONE THANK

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ROBERT CLARK
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Crossville, TN
Posts: 158

DOESNT'T ANYONE WANT TO TOUCH THIS ONE

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ROBERT CLARK
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Location: Leonard Tx.
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Robert I have a litter on the way that will be registered and super stakes in PKC.I am still confused about UKC I ask the question on here and ukc said no litter registration.I still hear mixed stories about single reg.and hunt hunt in ukc hunts.Do you know??? I mean for sure! LOL I think they had better start thinking about this because it seems to be catching on.I noticed PKC already has 13 one year olds with their $100 won to be in the big hunt.I believe a Walker X Bluetick made the final four at the breeders show case last week.

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Burr Oak

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Hohenwald,Tn
Posts: 465

No they won't register them as a litter as cross breeds they had rather you take a look at them when there born then single register them as what they look like. How stupid is that?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

I might as well get this over with, I'm gonna burn in He// now over this one for sure !

I've always supported what my breed organization wanted regarding single registration, the thought was #1, no false papers, and #2 keep them in the Bluetick family and not the English, so we have kept our books open for the last 2 years, and in that time we may have had 5 dogs apply.

Now, if PKC wants to have Cross Bred hounds, then so be it, they have not been registering coonhounds for over 100 years. My opinion is this, if you have to go outside your own breed to get what you need then you have failed within your own breed. If you cannot find within your own breed what you need or are missing, then there is something very wrong with your breed or your thinking regarding your breed as a whole.

Now, I'm a Bluetick person, if I need to go and introduce B&T, Walker or anything other than a Bluetick, my program has failed miserably !!!!!!!!! I mean if it comes to that they should all be culled and just go to the line I was going to add and start over with it. If I as a breeder cannot continue and better the dogs I have with the gene pool within my own breed, then again, either I'm blind and will not get what is needed due to my own jelousy, or stupidity, or my line has failed by my own hands also because of the above.

'PR' means something to me, and I like knowing that when I look at the papers on my dogs I know where they came from, and that through selected breeding, they have stood the test of time and came out on the other side a Winner.....going on making better doigs and providing others and myself enjoyment of hunting them.

Now, these are only my opinions, but go ahead let me have it !! I'm ready and thick skinned !!!!!

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Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

Last edited by Mark A. Hauck on 08-03-2003 at 04:47 AM

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Leonard Tx.
Posts: 297

You hear that Robert!Sorry I opened my mouth,I will get on back over there where I am welcome.see you later.

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Burr Oak

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Crossville, TN
Posts: 158

MARK I DO NOT HAVE TO GO OUT SIDE "MY" BRED TO GET WHAT I WANT BUT IF I SEE SOMETHING IN A DOG THAT I LIKE THEN I WANT IT AND I HAVE 3 VERY NICE WALKERS AND A VERY COLD NOSED RED DOG AND I THANK THAT THEY WOULD MAKE A NICE CROSS AND I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL ENGLISH DOG THAT ARE SINGLE REG WITH LIPPER IN THE PED

AND WOULD YOU KNOW IF SOME ONE SOLD YOU A BLUE ENGLISH AND TOLD YOU IT WAS A BLUETICK I DONT THANK SO

LOOK AT THAT BLACK & TAN DOG "ROCK" I KNOW SEVERAL B & T PEOPLE AROUND HERE THAT SAY THAT HE IS HALF WALKER AND THAT THEY WILL NOT BRED TO HIM SO MY QUESTION IS WOULD IT NOT BE BETTER TO REG THEM AS CROSS BRED THEN TO HAVE SOMEONE HAVE THEN SINGLE REG FOR SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT OR WORSE GET THEM A SET OF PAPERS FROM SOMEONE. I KNOW A PLACE YOU CAN BY A SET OF PAPERS ON ANY TYPE OF HOUND YOU WANT AND I MEAN NICE PAPERS

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fl.
Posts: 1280

Robert I will touch it. I asked almost the same question on here about UKC registering CrossBred pups and I was informed that UKC was a registery that registered purebred hounds. I respect their answer and will register my crossbreds somewhere else.
I have two cross bred pups that are Super Staked and they sure act good, time will tell if they tree coon good also.
Matter of fact they just turned 5 months old and will be in the woods tonight when I get off work.

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Boss Lights
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

Cross bred hounds are JUST THAT! CROSS BRED!!!!! How can you honestly register a cross bred hound. What do you call it ??? A WALKBONE, A BLACK AND TICK Come on people,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lets allow one thang to stay PURE BRED. Because SOCIETY sure isn't! PR stands for something and it ain't MIXED UP! This is an unbelievable suggestion. Its like allowing a white to run the NAACP. Lord knows what he'd be if there was a NAAWP!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fl.
Posts: 1280

Town Creek Blue I hope you don't think all these so called pure bred dogs are that just because they have papers. The english breed is full of blood that came from walkers and blue dogs being legally transfered to the english breed. There have been several red bone walker crosses that have found their way into the redbone breed.

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Boss Lights
San Mateo, Fl

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Location: Minnesota
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>Cross bred hounds are JUST THAT! CROSS BRED!!!!! How can you honestly register a cross bred hound.<
>if I need to go and introduce B&T, Walker or anything other than a Bluetick, my program has failed miserably !!!!!!!!!<

I'm with these guys and UKC on this one. A purebred registry has to have some standards and stick to them.
If you have some plan to improve the breed through crossbreeding, then prove it by single registering the pups. And wait a couple generations to get the "PR" stamp.

That doesn't mean I have anything against crossbred hounds.
They just don't fit into a purebred registry very well.
They can and do compete in hunts though.
So PKC with it's hunting registry is a natural for them.
And as far as registering pups with PKC though, why bother?
I consider PKC a hunting organization first, a registry second ( and a distant second at that).
I'd only register a dog with them when it was required to enter a competition.
I think it's silly to register pups with them.

UKC and PKC are different types of organizations.
What's the problem with that?

So there, now I've done it, I'll be burning in hell with Mark I guess.

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bruce ordway

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 21

Boys this is the first time i have ever wrote any thing on a computer but now i going to.I hunt walker dogs but im not color blind as long as they will hit a 100+ on the wood and wont pull.Im about to breed a Nelsons northern rex female (B&T) to Rat attack (walker).They will be super staked Dna profilled and that means no false papers like a lot of grandnites.So why cant i just rigister them in ukc as crossbred hounds and dna them that way were not lying about who there mom and dad is.You talk about keepin the breed together and that pr stuff this is called hb that stands for hillbilly breeding.And i thank if the sire and the dam is ukc registerd we should have a such thing as a crossbreed hound. Thanks PKC PROUD #36632

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Iron Station, North Carolina
Posts: 893

You can hunt crossbred hounds in UKC... They are called "GRADE" dogs. I can remember the time that during a UKC hunt there were as many grade dogs as registered dogs. Now if folks want to crossbreed that is their own choosing and there has been some real fine hounds as a result of cross breeding. However.....if they want to hunt in UKC they will have to hunt as grade hounds...no titles and no points....Now who says you can't hunt crossbreds in UKC, it has been done in the past and can be done now. You just may have the only grade dog at the hunt if you choose to do so.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 532

Now I'm not trying to cause any problems, but didn't most of our coonhounds originate from the english foxhound. And wasn't it the english breed that we got our blueticks, and walkers. Now I'm not sure, but I beleive it says in the u.k.c. rule book. I couldn't find mine to be sure, but I believe it said english coonhound was registered around 1906 then the bluetick fanciers and the walker fanciers started lobbying to register tri-color english as walkers, and blue english as blueticks. I believe one was registered around 1945 and the other was registered the following year. It also says in there that is the reason we still have tri-color english and blue english to this day. If this is true, then why would cross breeding be wrong? I ,for one, am for the cross breeding. Some of the best dogs I've been hunting with have been cross bred, and if u.k.c won't recognize them then it's there loss.

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For those of you who value "PR", and I am one, consider this. If cross bred hounds were allowed to be registered as crossbreeds, then the tendancy to false paper them and call them a PR might be reduced. This registration, would serve as all registrations - documentation of breeding history. It only provides a breeding record and allows the owner the opportunity to participate in UKC events and provides UKC with additional funds. It appears to be a win / win situation from my perspective. I hunt both hounds and curs, as well as treeing curs (crossbreeds that are registered as such). I am planning on a hound / cur litter next year that I will register as a treeing cur. This provides me with the opportunity to hunt and show and support our sport. With out the treeing cur (crossbreed) option, I would not be able to participate in any UKC sactioned event - who is the winner there. I see no difference in the hound or hound cross. It is true hound crosses are not pure breeds, but who wins from excluding them from participating. With the current turnout at most clubs, and public opinion about hunters, and hunting with dogs, we need all the participation and support we can get.

Just my 2 cents.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Leonard Tx.
Posts: 297

Well Well Well! I started out trying to get a simple answer and now I realize there is none.I knew to start with that I could not register the litter.I have heard all these stories about single registering these cross bred dogs and hunt ukc hunts.

Town Creek Blue: You must have a problem,You could call it a crossbred and reg.it. What is so unbelievable about that.And if you think all these breeds have always been pure breds,you have a problem for sure.Also what has this got to do with Society, Race and the NAACP,Man you are sick!
If I have a grand night champion walker and bred with a grand night champion Bluetick what would be wrong with registering it as a cross bred and having papers showing the breeding on the dam and sire?

Now correct me if I am wrong,but I understand that for example I cross a walker and a B&T and get a pup that looks like a B&T he can be registered as a B&T even when we know he is half Walker is that stupid or not?History has proven that any pure bred animal after so long starts to go down hill and the way to bring it back is to cross breed.

Don't get me wrong I love my Blue dogs and I may never do this again,but time will tell.

Are you guys scared?? LOL

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Burr Oak

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Crossville, TN
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SO IF I BREED A COUPLE HOUNDS FROM DIFFERANT BREDS I CAN REG THEM AS TREEING CURS IS THAT RIGHT

CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY THEY WOULD LET YOU DO THAT THEY ARE NOT PUREBRED ANYTHING WHAT I HAVE READ THEY ONLY HAVE TO HAVE 1 PARENT OF TREE DOG ANSETRY I.E.: HOUND,CUR OR FIEST AND THESE PUPS CAN PARTISAPAT IN UKC EVENTS

BY THIS YOU CAN BRED A FIEST AND A GREAT DANE YOU CAN IT A TREEING CUR GO FIGUER BUT YOU CANT JUST REG THEM AS A CROSS

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Hohenwald,Tn
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There is a fellow that lives about 20 miles from me and he keeps about 60-70 dogs all the time and he will sell you a set of papers bred anyway you want them for $20. If you like one of the dogs over there but not whats on his papers no problem he will get you a set you like.When he gets a dog without papers they leave there with a nice set of PR" papers. So all you fellows that think you don't have a cross bred dog just because there papers has a PR' on them just think about this guy and what he does then you will realize how many cross bred dogs are really out there.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

wow some very strong feelings on this one.. anybody who thinks their hounds are pure bred is living in fantasy land... a pr dogs is one you have records of matings for several generations..... like a lot of people pointed out those records arent always accurate.. i dont see anything wrong with cross bred hounds and if they are popular at pkc , then ukc should consider registering them .. i think if you were cross breeding english blutic walkers and even english foxhounds you would get all dogs that could be single registered english. ive had some great dogs that were foxhound coon hound cross. i also remember when lots of grade dogs at hunts.. some of best dogs i ever saw were grades.. its amazing how much fun the grade casts were. none of the tension ive seen on the registered and nt ch casts.. .. i think that nitehunts should definately let grade dogs compete. curs cross breds whatever. let the best dog take the trophy home... if you want to stick with breeding in your own breed thats your choice . i think i would too. would be more revenue for clubs , ukc ,etc if all dogs registered and allowed to compete.. .. the only concern i have about the whole deal is loss of dogs available for most of us that would stick within the breeds we have now.. anyways ive hunted with and seen a lot of cross bred dogs and grade dogs that were great . papers dont make the dog. the dog makes the papers. pete

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I just wanted to make sure I clarified one point, Curs or crosses can not compete with hounds in UKC, but only in their Cur and Fiest program. And yes, you can cross any treedog you want onto anything else, and register it as a treeing cur. If its no good, then you don't have to feed it, buy it or breed to it and shouldn't have to worry about getting beat buy it at the hunts - UKC and our sport would benifit from it being hunted though. Perhaps some of you should investigate a line of treeing curs bred by Alex Kovac, UKC Cur and Fiest program representative.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

OK,,,,,,,,,,for those of you that can't understand, here it is in a nutshell!!!! BREED ----Crossbred is not a BREED! OK???

NO MAMA, VICKI AIN'T DA DEBUL, YOU DA DEBUL, YOU DA DEBAL MAMA!!!

TCB

SEE YA THERE!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 30

I have mixed feelings about this topic but I would like to give my two cents worth.....

I was born on a farm in northeast Indiana and we raised hogs. We would crossbreed those animals to help keep costs down and to help those breeds strive were there was faults to produce a better quality product!! Now with that said I feel that all breed of hounds have a trait that another breed not neccessarily needs but would really like to have!! Now you call it single registration I would refer to it as a crossbreed what's the difference?? If I was to breed a bloodhound to a bluetick and the pups looked like a bluetick and the daddy was a pr hound can they be registered as a bluetick??

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fl.
Posts: 1280

You question Mr. Basher is one UKC is going to ponder and had better get on board with soon. PKC has opened the door by allowing Cross Bred hounds to be registered. There will be plenty
AND if you keep them in their own classification where many say they belong that will be OK. Most of PKC are DNA'ed cause they are SS pups. Now if UKC does not give the cross bred hounds a place to call home where do you think they are going to end up. The ones that look like redbones will be single registered or false papers put on the. The black ones will be black and tans and so forth. What do you all want UKC to do---find them a place to call home--that being UKC registered cross breds--or--let them wonder off into every breed depending on what color they are??
If thinking about the future fustrates you today---just wait till tomorrow.

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Boss Lights
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TOWN CREEK BLUE UKC CALL A TREEING CUR A BRED PLEASE TELL YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT AND AFTER 3 GEN. OF BREEDING CROSS BRED DOGS THEY GET A "PR" THAT YOU LOVE SO MUCH

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
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is if all these people on this board know of all these people putting papers on dogs and where to buy papers, shame on you for not turning them into UKC so we can get rid of them.

I don't know about anyone else but I guess thats why I'm picky about what I breed to and I make sure the person who owns the dog is as good as the dog. Those claims that our 'PR' means nothing , well mine does, and I know each and every dog in them, so NO PAPERS been put on any of these dogs, and

yes, back in 1946 the Walker & Bluetick did split from the English and after 50+ years the linage can still be traced back, and with HONEST breeders you know the papers are correct.

My gut feeling is if you have any doubts about a breeder than don't deal with them, sooner or later time will catch up and they will be done, no need for them due to supply and demand. Dog traders?????? they still have them, who would go there??Who would even think about buying a dog there????

I'm sorry folks, but in my opinion when I have to add to my line from a Walker, Redbone, B&T or any of the other 5 breeds to make my Bluetick better, than I feel I have failed as a breeder, a hunter, and if I want that Walker or B&T than I'll just go buy a pup out of him and start all over, because thats what is boils down to, and I hope I never get to that point.

PKC did it for MONEY to get more dog registered, DNA'd and for their hunts and other programs, if it works for them...fine, but I will vote against it in UKC, I may get out-voted, but I will vote my belief. PKC has the game for cross bred hounds, and thats where it needs to be played, I just hope it never is forced on us in UKC. If the majority of the breed Assn vote for it, then I guess I'll live with it, I may not like it and I'll never breed to a cross bred hound, but I'll will learn to live with it it it happens

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Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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