Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern Ohio
Posts: 127

There was a post not too long ago that I was going to post on but never quite got back to it. Someone was talking about dogs that do nite hunts as opposed to dogs that don't. Basically they were saying that a title doesn't make a dog a better dog.

I have heard it said that there are a lot better dogs who don't do nite hunts as opposed to those who do. I am not sure if this is true or not. I've just heard people say this. While that maybe so in my opinion anyone who puts a title on their dog no matter what kind of a title it is deserves a little bit of respect. This person has put a lot of time, effort, & money into competing with their dog.

There are a few hunters around here who think the bench shows are stupid and a waste of time. They don't understand that it is more than just flopping a dog on a bench. There is conditioning, feeding for nice coats, & training, etc.

The same as there are people who bench show who call AKC shows "foo foo" dog shows. It's a bit different than a bench show but still it's a lot of work to get a dog ready to show.


I have had dogs all my life but in the last five years I have gotten serious about competing in different events with my dogs. I love it when I win with my dogs. At the last rally trial I went to with one of the cresteds we finished 4th out of 11 dogs with a score of 90. Cocoa and I put in a lot of time to get that. Of course he could care less about winning he just knows when mom is happy and when mom is happy life is good

I look forward to doing lots of things with my hounds and even hope to do some winning in different competition events with them. A few of which are the bench shows and later on down the line competition hunting.

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 184

You don't need to be very smart to know that a title doesn't make a dog a better dog. The dogs don't know anything about titles. All a title proves is that the dog has been measured against a set standard and has met that standard. It doesn't mean the dog is better than a non-titled dog, it just means the dog has been put out there in the public eye, it's performance is a matter of public record and the dog met the standard as opposed to a non-titled dog who performs in private with other dogs the owner can choose. The dogs owner can tell everyone how great the dog is, he hasn't bothered to prove the dog in public or against any standard. That is the difference.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

i am not a comp hunter but the folks that do comp hunt thier hounds or show them do have my respect and no the title dont make the dawg but it is nice to have any man or woman that takes thier hounds to hunts and wins is packin a hound and they deserve to be respected but dont think a plain ol registered hound can put a whoopin on one of those grnite or nite champs there are several hounds that never see a comphunt that can definatly win
ive got high expectations of a cross i just made if i think i can put a degree on the pup or pups i keep i will

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Cutler, Il.
Posts: 1631

does not IMPRESS me like it used too. Mainly because when I look at most of the Hunt results in the in the back of the magizines, I look to see how many entries there were for that particular Hunt. I have seen as low as 3 on up to around 20. 30 dog's at a LOCAL HUNT is outstanding these days. Mostly what I chuckle about is the people that are constantly BRAGGING about their dog making Nt.Ch. & there were only 2-3 dog's in their cast & NO OTHER CAST OF DOG'S IN THEIR CLASS. The same holds true for making a dog A Gr.Nt.Ch. these day's. I'm not saying that the dog is NO GOOD, but it did not have to COMPETE against as many other GOOD DOG'S, as they did 20- 40 years ago. Granted a dog can only beat the dog's in his/her cast, & this is where PKC & AKC have it over UKC. IMO, the TITLE of Nt.Ch. in AKC is more IMPRESSIVE TODAY, than the same TITLE in UKC or PKC.

What IMPRESS'S me more than anything today is a dog's ABILITY TO REPRODUCE, such as a SACKETT JR. etc. This is where a TITLED DOG has it over the GRADE DOG or a even a NON-TITLED DOG, that is never put into a Hunt, more exsposure & better record keeping, that is open to the public. But I have seen QUITE A FEW grade dog's back 40-50 years ago that in IMO, could & would have, put a whipping on alot of these titled dog's of today.

YES, I have hunted with & against the likes of Banjo, Banjo ll, Merchant's Bawlie, & Finley River Chief, & others, & they were not that far removed from the GRADE DOG STATUS. We are still seeing their influence today, along with other REGISTERED & NON-TITLED DOG'S of that ERA. A lot of those dog's were SINGLE REGISTERED, or 1-2 GENERATIONS removed from the GRADE DOG or NON-TITLED DOG STATUS. If the INFLUENCE on today's dog's is not coming from dog's such as I mentioned & other NON-TITLED DOG's, please tell me, WHERE IS IT COMING FROM??????????????????????????

To me whether the dog is, GRADE, NON-TITLED, or TITLED, CAN & WILL IT REPRODUCE IT'S LIKENESS OR BETTER?????????????????????

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I dont really give a crap one way or the other. I do think that most coon dogs that are FOR REAL coondogs.Have been in hunts!!!! I dont believe theirs many behind the bard never heard about world beaters..... If they are good enough someone will carry them to the dance sooner or later.Also I'd love to hunt against some of these hounds from 30 to 40 years ago. I bet they were not better at all... Just seems like they were.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

ga dawg i always heard the longer a hound was dead the better they got lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Its true Jimmie. I had a english dog been dead about 10 years... He could have broke the all time winning money record in pkc and would have won every world hunt I hunted him in.HE WAS NICE!!!!!! If only I had comp hunted him.LOL!!!!

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3970

I dont have any Titled Hounds, but I would have to say, a title impresses me, When I see a Title on a Hound, I know right off that It can tree a Coon, or atleast it will tree a Coon with other hounds.
Nothing against a title.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3970

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I dont really give a crap one way or the other. I do think that most coon dogs that are FOR REAL coondogs.Have been in hunts!!!! I dont believe theirs many behind the bard never heard about world beaters..... If they are good enough someone will carry them to the dance sooner or later.Also I'd love to hunt against some of these hounds from 30 to 40 years ago. I bet they were not better at all... Just seems like they were.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Thats all that needs to matter to you.. Your the one feeding them and if you like em thats what counts.. I'm not talking about your dogs.I'm just saying that I dont think theirs that many super coondogs that have not been in the hunts.I know if I thought I had one he would be in the hunts somehow someway!!! I do know the hunts have plenty of dogs in em that have no business being in one...I've never run across one of these pleasure only hounds that gave me a whooping.Maybe because they are well kept secrets.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 259

To me a dog with a title means nothing more than someone paid some entry fees and took him/her to some events. I have no idea how the titles were earned or how the dog performs in the woods. I look for certain things in dogs and won’t raise a pup off a sire and dam that don’t both possess those things no mater what title they may have hung on them or what line of dogs they may have came from including my own. I’ve seen many Nt. Ch., Gr. Nt. Ch. and even World Ch. dogs that you couldn’t give me a pup out of with a years supply of dog food to boot. Some were just plain hitchhikers and others were evidently made by the handler because they sure couldn’t have won on ability alone. I’ve also hunted with many fine titled hounds that deserved to be called Nt. Ch., Gr. Nt. or whatever. The best dog I ever hunted with was never entered in any kind of event because his owner quit hunting in the hunts years before the dog was born but it made the dog no less of a great hound an didn’t effect his bloodline or what he reproduced at all. To me it’s all very simple HUNT BEFORE YOU BREED OR BUY. I want dogs that have enough brains to be a pleasure to own, are not mean, have a loud mouth, open good on the track, possess track speed, will go hunting, stay treed and have game in the tree most of the time. Because these are the things I want in a dog I must hunt before I breed or buy otherwise I can’t possibly know for sure what I’m breeding to or buying. I’ve spent many years and traveled many miles to keep the traits I like in my dogs and they sure ain’t the best dogs in the world but I do know first hand what’s behind them and that means I know what to expect when I raise a pup. I’m not gonna take a chance on screwing up what I have by breeding to a dog just because of some title. JMO

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Sandy Hook, KY
Posts: 1009

i have never sean a set of papers tree the first coon,aney dog can be titteled with the rite handler,,,and some cash,,,,,just open your eyes it is a money game that is all,for every one they catch cheeting at the nights hunts they are 100 that dont get cought,,hell just look at who just got cought taking dogs off the tree so one of there freands could win and cought red handed,,do you realey think the owner of the dog did not know,,come on belive wat you wount the owener knowed the handler did not cheet for free he had a price,,these people will do wat ever it takes to win,,and stay in the public eye so they can sale pups and so on,,this is not the first time and i promis it wount be the last time,,ANEY DOG CAN WINE IF YOU HAVE A NUF CASH AND THAT IS FACT,,IT HASE ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY AND ALWAYS WILL BE,david boggs

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 706

There are many coondogs that are titled, and many titled dogs that are far from coondogs.

But one thing to consider is what you want the dog for. If you are a pleasure hunter (don't comp hunt), and just want leisurely hunts, a good track dog may be your preference. It may not matter that they are very fast, first tree dogs, and you may not even want that.

If you are comp hunter, you may be more interested in fast, tree dogs that can win hunts, have a coon (at least most of the time), but may not even be able to do it well by itself. Not a coondog, but may be an excellent comp dog.

What most say they want is a good BALANCED dog that do do it all. There are many. I have one. He can work hot or cold tracks, layups, is quick and often first strike and tree. He doesn't win every hunt, but he knows how to tree coons. He usually leads the pack, but sometimes he follows. Point is, no matter the dog, they are like people - they have good days, bad days, and a variety of days. They win some, they loose some. There are World Nite Champions that won (relatively) few other hunts before that, and others who won a lot of big hunts but didn't quite get the world (Mojo for example).

A "GOOD DOG" is defined by what YOU want out of YOUR dog. Not what title he does or does not have unless a good comp / title dog is your priority.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11976

when i was young i thought if a dog was titled it was outa this world coon dog man was i wrong hunted with alot of titled dogs in my time that i wouldnt feed never had any interst in the hunts but i have had dogs over the yrs guys wanted me to put in the hunts said they could win but never did i would rather show my dogs in the woods then they see what i got i have a niehbor that hunts dogs off and on for a guy that does the hunts he wanted to take a male red dog i had put him in the hunts said he could nite champion him out quick the way he hunted and treed told him i would sell him the dog and he could put him in the hunts but said he couldnt afford him i told him 1500 where you gonna buy a dog that could win i the hunts for that price so titles dont mean nothing to me

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

For each one of us to say I got a dog I really like means in the basic line of thinking that the dog will tree a coon. How the dog goes about doing that is what makes the difference in who likes which dog and decides to keep them.
Some people hunt hard but don't go to hunts so I see no reason to believe their untitled dog wouldn't be a good one if they spend that much time at it just for the pleasure of doing it.
Others have dogs or a dog that gets hunted once in while and seldom get enough woods time to ever know how good they could be.
A competition person who goes to and enters hunts on a regular basis and knows he has to have something decent to play with is in my opinion more likely to have a possible World Champion type dog cause they're always looking or wishing for one plus hunting and training for the next hunt. That's where the titles are picked up but still may not be the kind of dog you like.
May be one tied behind the barn but these days you're more likely to see him at a hunt, especially a big hunt.
A pleasure hunter these days has to watch what he buys or he may get something that's not much fun to chase thru the country and never see on the same tree as his buddy's dog when they go out for FUN.
Many dogs wouldn't be much fun without tracking systems.

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: yale, MI
Posts: 36

i have a hound that has no degrees. iv ran her with lots of other hounds, and quiet a few grand nite dogs. havent ran her against one of her caliber yet, i only pleasure hunt. six nights a week for atleast four hours a night. is she a coondog? taking her to my first hunt this weekend, only because i believe she deserves a shot to prove herself. she has more than proven it to me, and others... some people just need to see it on paper. she has great breeding behind her from a half brother half sister cross.

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Posts: 1648

I use to read bloodlines and fantisize bout them titled dogs,than I hunted with several and changed my mind!

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 928

quote:

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Originally posted by fyresidecrested

I have heard it said that there are a lot better dogs who don't do nite hunts as opposed to those who do. I am not sure if this is true or not. I've just heard people say this. While that maybe so in my opinion anyone who puts a title on their dog no matter what kind of a title it is deserves a little bit of respect. This person has put a lot of time, effort, & money into competing with their dog.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13413

quote:

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Originally posted by fyresidecrested

While that maybe so in my opinion anyone who puts a title on their dog no matter what kind of a title it is deserves a little bit of respect. This person has put a lot of time, effort, & money into competing with their dog.

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Troy NC
Posts: 2288

i lost a lot of respect for the hunts (not the hunters) a long time ago. I used to be heavy into the comp hunts about 15 yrs ago. I chased titles and trophies and missed a big part of really enjoying the pleasure of hunting. Now i enjoy hunting more than ever, and i feel i have better dogs now (untitled) than i did then.
I know a guy who spent 3200 dollars just to get his 5 nite champ wins to go grand. thats not counting the run for nite champ. if i remember right he said it took him 38 hunts to get his grand. Well the way i see it...i feel any dog that can tree a coon from time to time can make grand these days.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3422

quote:

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Originally posted by HOBO
The titles don't mean anything UNLESS you know the Person behind the dog OR you know the DOG. [/B]

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

A couple times selling coons this year i ran into a guy that was treeing 50-60 coon a week with his non titled dog. I thought man that dog must be a coon dog. Well after hunting with it; I'll keep my 15 coon a week titled dogs.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

i've hunted my walker female with some good well known titled nitech and even grnitech. and she made them look pretty average.
even bought a few titled hounds off here off some very well known stud dogs and even 1 off a worldch. with 2 wins.
thinking i was getting some high powered coon dogs.only to sell them all 2 weeks later.slick tree'n,me too'n,hot nosed tree happy idiots.
i wouldn't trade her for any of them.
most titled dogs are hot nosed,tree happy,not very accurate and only win with leaves on.
leaves fall off, coon season come in and the ground gets cold....most are done-no nose for the tough conditions{frost,rain,snow}

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Palmyra, Missouri
Posts: 9991

I have heard it said that there are a lot better dogs who don't do nite hunts as opposed to those who do. I am not sure if this is true or not. I've just heard people say this. While that maybe so in my opinion anyone who puts a title on their dog no matter what kind of a title it is deserves a little bit of respect. This person has put a lot of time, effort, & money into competing with their dog.

I fully agree. The owner had enough confidence in his hound to put it in the hunts. If he gets beat, there is always a next weekend. If he continually gets beat, he will do either two things. One get a better dog, or two he will quit hunting the hunts and complain how he always got cheated. 99% of the casts I have been on was fun and fair. I understand economic situations may play a vital part, remember family before dogs.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

I have heard it said that there are a lot better dogs who don't do nite hunts as opposed to those who do. I am not sure if this is true or not."

That is probubly true that there are better dogs out there but untill they compete they will never know if they are better or not. All the title means is they were hunting better on the nights they won than the other dogs and if they have consistantly they are better dog than most in the comps.
The titlse are the only way the rest of the world can judge your dog becouse we can't go hunting with them all.
We can look in the back of COONHOUND and see what dog is produceing winners and that is were I would pic a stud dog for my gyp. Then if I could I would go hunt with it to see if it is the style of hunter I want and if it is strong were mine is week.

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