Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Va
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I would like to know something........Are UKC registered CURS allowed to HUNT in UKC NITE HUNTS ALONG WITH OTHER COONHOUND BREEDS?

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Noble, Oklahoma
Posts: 528

Not at this time. Trott.

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i don't feel that the curs should be allowed to hunt against the curs at this time but i do feel that they should be allowed to compete in cur / fiest cast at the same hunt, abling them to compete for High scoring dog & etc... but the curs /fiests should be in separate casts.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 1042

Brogy, What is your reasoning for allowing Mt. Curs to hunt against Feists but not against hounds.
I believe that a man should hunt his dog against any dog! That way you know what you've got.

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I guess I wouldn't really care if they did compete against hounds. But I don't think the hound folks would welcome it and I think that the rules should be changed to accomodate curs.
I would like to see cur events take place at the same time as hound events just to take advantage of 1 MOH, kitchen help, & etc. I think it would help out the clubs and maybe bridge the gap between cur entusiasts & houndsmen.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 605

Please elaborate on how you believe the rules would need changed to accomodate the curs? Personally I believe keep the rules as they are. Curs can compete with hounds at most local hunts I have been involved with. This is 2006 and we still have folks that believe curs are hot nosed, yippy mouthed still dogs. Come go hunting with my leopards any time.

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...curs+and+hounds

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...hlight=loeopard Here are a couple threads that were on the hound board that made for interesting reading and I believe fell under this subject.

Last edited by perry on 11-04-2006 at 01:34 PM

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

Brogy at this time I think you are 100% right on track. The hound people have buiult the Nite Hunts to where they are today and I don't feel the Cur & Feist people have earned the right to just jump in. Mabey the all OMCBA hunt in Jamestown should be opened up to the hounds. Coondogedog you people down there don't even go to the UKC Cur & Feist hunts you have now what makes you think UKC would just let you jump into the Hound Hunts.

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L.H. & Curt Ladner Blackmouth Curs in Michigan

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 605

If UKC could see a profit and no risk upsetting the hound folks we would not even be having this discussion. Also my personal belief is that the grade hunts devolved into the hunts of today. Organizations like UKC, PKC , NKC found a way to get involved and make a profit. No problem with that. They have added some value for sure. It is the way the world works. I feel a big problem was touched on in another recent post. It will take a special individual to energize these cur/feist hunts and UKC has not found that person yet. Don't really know if they are looking? Have they let this DDDRRRRAAAG on too long to change it? As for opening up Jamestown? Is it a UKC event? I believe all the hounds have breed only hunts? I was never sure if they received championship points or not? I know UKC allows the ALCBA Inc. to hold 1 all leopard hunt per year and points are awarded. What we do the rest of the hunt does not involve UKC as it is not UKC sanctioned.
lfrisbie, you also mentioned Brogy was 100% right on the track. Can you explain your feelings on that one? Curious what you meant. Thanks

Last edited by perry on 11-04-2006 at 01:50 PM

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

Brogy doesn't think Cur & Feist should be able to hunt together at this time and I agree I don't think they should hunt together in a hound event. The hound rules were made around the style of hunting the hounds do and the Cur & Feist have a different style of hunting. I don't see the Cur & Feist people hunting in the PKC nite hunts they do allow Cur's in with the hounds. Explain that Perry.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: ohio
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At the average local PKC hunt how many redbones do they have ? Plotts? As for curs not hunting in PKC, My personal experience has been mostly with the leopard folks. The majority just have no desire or real interest in competitive style hunting. I have seen at our Fall hunt on Wednesday nite and Thursday nite as many as 35 pleasure hunters go to the woods. Turn around and in the competition hunt on Friday nite draw 15 dogs. Same dogs, same crowd. I wonder how many curs are being hunted in PKC? Do you have access to some way of knowing? Does PKC report this type of information? Please this is no way intended as a slam. I am wondering if PKC does have these kind of stats. I can't see curs ever competing at the numbers of the Walkers, English or Blueticks. I do believe you would see more curs hunting in UKC hunts if they could hunt with hounds if for no other reason convenience. I personally would like to see it left up to the local clubs. I don't have the answers to revive the current cur /feist program. I do believe major change will be needed to pick it up. As for hunting style. I can only use my own dogs as examples. I see two big difference in my leopards and the competition style hound. My dogs do not hunt on a straight line and they do have a reverse.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: unionville,mo
Posts: 375

The way I see it if a cur is able to aquire a nitech degree it should compete with everyone else on the same level. With hounds, fiests, curs, what ever it may be. Different styles and advantages, isnt that what comes with any breed, be it cur or hound?!

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

I would agree but the Cur & Feist didn't make nt ch on the same level as the hounds so there for they shouldn't be able to hunt together. I have nothing against hunting with the hounds but I don't honestly feel the Cur & Feist people have earned that right. I can remember when at a nite hunt the grade had more dogs in them than the registered but over time they turned that around now you will be hard pressed to find a grade cast. I feel that the Cur & Feist people need to build up the right to hunt with the hounds and by complaining isn't getting it done. You have a right to your openion the same as I and everyone else but actions speak louder than words. The Cur and Feist people aren't even supporting the competition events UKC has for them now.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Dwight, IL
Posts: 143

That is because they feel that they are inferior, which they truly are. It is a joke and everybody know it.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: S.E.Minn.
Posts: 320

I think cur people should quit complaining about UKC. How many cur people have stepped up to the plate to help promote cur events in UKC? I bet any time someone does step up they get ridiculed. How many people do you know have called UKC, or went to a UKC board meeting to express their opinions? As far as UKC allowing curs to hunt I could care less. But I think its a little unfair to say that NKC is better than UKC as I went to a cur event this summer and I didnt think it was really any better than a UKC event. One thing for sure any dog growling or snapping at another dog in a UKC bench show would be scratched. As far as Leapord Curs I feel they are just as much hound as a Plott, as a matter of fact the breeds share some common blood. If you think hound people are gonna give up something that they have worked on and organized for over 50 years your wrong. Curs have not earned the right to enter Autumn Oaks, Winter Classic, Walker Days....ect. These events take alot of hard work put forward by hound people. You would not be anymore welcome there than a hound would be welcome at your breed days and large events. So when Cur people get themselves organized, get over whatever old issues they have, work together with UKC, then you can complain.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

Terry you are better with words than I am but you pretty much laid out what I have been trying to say. I myself am an old hound man that now has Cur & Feist.

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L.H. & Curt Ladner Blackmouth Curs in Michigan

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 660

GOOD POST TERRY.i talked to alex till i was blue in the face. i told him to keep the license fee at zero,if held the same night as a hound nite hunt. ukc still made money even if you only had one dog. once things picked up, then they could start charging fees to hold one. you have to crawl before you walk,you know. 25$ to hold a cur nite hunt along with 25$ for the hound license, if you only had one cur,maybe two, the club lost money on the cur portion and had to make it up on the hound part, which cut in to what little profit the clubs make these days. 25$ is to much money untill the program gets bigger. now people are shying away from registering their curs for fear of the program folding then they would be stuck with a useles piece of paper. HEY UKC!!, lets try a $5 dollar licence fee to hold a nite hunt(cur) to go along with the hound hunt. that way if only one dog showed up(cur) the club would pay 5+3.50=8.50 to ukc. if the club had a poorboy event $12 entry at least they would make a little for their trouble. keep the door open ,even if its for only one.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: S.E.Minn.
Posts: 320

I really believe that cur and hound events can be held together. The $5 event fee is a really good idea. As far as curs and hounds hunting together, some strains and breeds would be really compatible and some would not. From the way Mr. Trott describes his curs I believe they would adapt well. One thing to keep in mind is that there are many cur and feist people who have hunted hounds but not very many hound people who have hunted curs. Here is a scenario to keep in mind. Say you take a cur and draw out 3 hounds, your cur can tree coon but is aclose hunter. The 3 hound handlers do not want to walk, there dogs go deep and get treed while your cur is close. with the differance in the 2 hunting styles you wouldnt win. Now some will say that a cur will tree behind these dogs but there are areas and nights were they wont. Do you honestly want to hunt against hounds or do you want the right to go to as many events that hounds have? They are completely differant types of hunting dogs so why would you want them to compete against each other. Having events together but hunting seperate would be beneficial to both curs and hounds. I wouldnt wanna run my hounds against field trial dogs at the Kenton Nationals. I recognize the differance between curs and hounds and that is what I like. the differance. Why would you want to make curs more like hounds or vice versa?

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Noble, Oklahoma
Posts: 528

Good post Terry. A lot of truth to it. I want my curs to hunt like hounds but most cur hunters do not. Again good post. Trott.

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Very good posts Terry. I think you make some very good points.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
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quote:

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Originally posted by lfrisbie
Brogy at this time I think you are 100% right on track. The hound people have buiult the Nite Hunts to where they are today and I don't feel the Cur & Feist people have earned the right to just jump in. Mabey the all OMCBA hunt in Jamestown should be opened up to the hounds. Coondogedog you people down there don't even go to the UKC Cur & Feist hunts you have now what makes you think UKC would just let you jump into the Hound Hunts.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

I've been trying to think of a way to make it more feasible for clubs to have a cur nite hunt in conjunction with their hound hunt. Just have to come up with the right package deal. Thanks for the suggestions.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: S.E.Minn.
Posts: 320

quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
I've been trying to think of a way to make it more feasible for clubs to have a cur nite hunt in conjunction with their hound hunt. Just have to come up with the right package deal. Thanks for the suggestions.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

3.Consider allowing Leopard Curs into Registered Hound Events, does there just have to be 6 breeds? What makes the Leopoard Cur any different from any other Cur. The Leopard isn't the only trailing Cur.

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L.H. & Curt Ladner Blackmouth Curs in Michigan

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: S.E.Minn.
Posts: 320

quote:

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Originally posted by lfrisbie
3.Consider allowing Leopard Curs into Registered Hound Events, does there just have to be 6 breeds? What makes the Leopoard Cur any different from any other Cur. The Leopard isn't the only trailing Cur.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Superstition Mtns., AZ
Posts: 1166

I'm going to assume that you have not hunted with a Leoprd Cur. If you would like to get an idea of what is different about them in relation to Mtn. Curs I would suggest calling John Wick and asking him that question. He has the most experience with the most numbers of all three breeds of anyone that I know.

From my own experience, Leopards are by design, an open trailing breed of dog. While there are lines and individuals within the other breeds (except Stevens Curs) that are open, there are many curs that are silent. Many more than open I think. I believe that these dogs are what the objection is about. There also are many lines of Mtn. Curs that are bred to be close handling dogs and I can see that the hunting style difference between these dogs and the harder hunting hounds would cause some conflict in the field. But as far as Leopards go, I have never felt like I was on unequal ground when hunting with hounds of any breed under any circumstance.
I do wonder what the casts do when they run into a hound that hunts like a cur. Does the whole thing just fall apart? (This question is not directed at you specifically).

Take care,
Dan McDonough

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