Registered: Jul 2003
Location: almost heaven / Holmes county
Posts: 1591

Saw this at a hunt this weekend.... 4 dogs struck, 2 score a line, time runs out in the hunt, majority DID NOT see the rabbit, What happens with the strike points on the dogs that missed the line?????

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: millersburg ohio
Posts: 46

They should be plused.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

If 4 dogs are struck but only 2 score the line and then time runs out without the majority seeing the rabbit...

Well,

The 2 dogs who scored on the line would have strike and line points plussed...

And the 2 dogs who missed the line would have strike points circled. Because they did not lock in thier strike points by scoring a line nor did the majority see the rabbit prior to time running out.

Jack

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Registered: May 2004
Location: wis
Posts: 49

Would'nt all points be circled be cause the rabbit was not seen by majority of the cast.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Rising Sun Maryland
Posts: 743

when you score a line your all agreeing its a rabbit. they should be plussed.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Michigan
Posts: 2487

Plus their strike points.

The reason for this is that the majority of the cast and the judge were present to score the line. This verifies the rabbit.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: almost heaven / Holmes county
Posts: 1591

Thats what I said , but don't think thats what happened.

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Registered: Apr 2004
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Posts: 225

Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority doesn't have to be present to mark the line, just have to have majority to score it right? So if the majority didn't see the rabbit to mark the line the 2 that missed the line would have circle points.

Chaffin Crank

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

I agree chaffin, we were both taught that a dog would have to score a line or hole(with majority seeing the rabbit) to have its strikes plussed....

Jack

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: missouri
Posts: 105

Plus, No ? about it!!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Victor, WV
Posts: 227

I went back and found a similar thread from a couple months ago and brought it forward. Compare the threads.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

Todd:

Here Is A Link To A Hunting Question You Posted:
http://ukcdogs.com/forums/showthrea...p;threadid=8304

There You Posted This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Todd M / UKC
Four ways to plus your strike points:

1. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog scores speed and drive.
2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
3. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and time runs out in the hunt.
4. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog is struck in and the dogs on that track catch a rabbit

---

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Registered: May 2004
Location: wis
Posts: 49

Majority of the cast DID NOT see the rabbit . Points will be circled if rabbit is not seen by majority of cast (5a) Or covered by (5b) dogs trailing when hunt time expires. rereading the question I would have to remove the score from the first two dogs reason; how can you score a line and not have majority of the cast not see the rabbit, sounds like the majority was not present for the scoring of the line.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

well i figure 1 person seen the rabbit and the majority along with the judge scored the line.... which then you would be plus'n the 2 dogs that hit it.... however.... the 2 dogs that missed it, since they majority didn't see and they ran it until time expired the only thing you could do it circle thier strikes....

just what i see,
Jack

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Michigan
Posts: 2487

They are plussed for the reason I said above. By virtue of the judge and majority scoring the line it is interpreted by UKC as the same as the majority seeing the rabbit.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

Originally posted by Todd M / UKC
Four ways to plus your strike points:

1. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog scores speed and drive.

But Todd, you are quoted for saying YOUR dog scoring the speed and drive....

Where in the rules does it say that majority scoring speed and drive(that the majority didn't see the rabbit) is the same as majority seeing the rabbit?

Not trying to be a butt, but there is alot of people (including myself) scoring it the other way around here....

-Jack

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Last edited by xdawgbeagles on 04-06-2005 at 01:19 PM

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

Todd,

How are you not contradicting yourself?

Your question before was:
Rule Question
Four dog cast. All four dogs are struck in on a track. The dogs have completely circled the rabbit and a line is marked. Three of the four dogs score on the line and the fourth dog misses the line. The track continues on for about 100 yards and the dogs lose the rabbit. It is obvious that it is a loss as there are no holes to be found. What do you do with the dog that missed the lines strike points?

You Answered: Okay, here is the answer. I am going to stick this post to the top of the board as there are a lot of people that seem to have a problem with this. Hopefully this will help by leaving it where everyone can see is.

First let me start by saying, this is the official interpretation of this situation. You may or may not agree with it, but this is the answer. I always tell people that there are four ways that a dog can earn plus strike points. There are no other ways to earn plus points than what I am listing below. Any other situation CANNOT result in plus strike points. If you remember these four situations, interpreting rules will become a little easier.

Four ways to plus your strike points:

1. Your strike points will be plussed if YOUR dog scores speed and drive.
2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
3. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and time runs out in the hunt.
4. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog is struck in and the dogs on that track catch a rabbit

THAT’S IT! There are no other possible ways to plus your strike points in a U.K.C. event. Did the dog in question do any of these? No he didn’t. He missed the line so he does not get his strike points plussed. The fact that the rest of the cast scored does not give the dog that missed plus strike points. They have to do it their self. So, plussing strike points are out.
My Thoughts: You even mention that the 4 pervious ways are the only ways to plus strike points. Now, are you saying there is a 5th way?

Just Tryin To Get This Right,
Jack

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 247

The key here is "TIME RUNNING OUT"...

"3. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and time runs out in the hunt."

"The majority of the cast and the judge were present to score the line. This verifies the rabbit."

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Michigan
Posts: 2487

Because in that case the dogs lost the rabbit. It is a totally different scenario. UKC considers the judge and the majority scoring a line the same as the majority seeing the rabbit. I don't know how I can be more clear. It is UKC's job to interpret the rules. Rules Committee makes the rules and UKC interprets them. This is UKC's official interpretation of the situation and I don't see how it contradicts my previous statement. It still falls under the four ways to plus your strike. It falls under majority of cast seeing rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge. The majority saw the dogs cross the marked line and score speed and drive and that is the same as the majority seeing the rabbit.

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Last edited by Todd M / UKC on 04-06-2005 at 01:51 PM

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

i was wrong, thanks for clearing it up todd. i was getting lost when it come to the fact that i didn't know there was any other way to say majority had seen the rabbit other than the majority actually seeing the rabbit.

take it easy,
see ya next week,
Jack Chapman

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Last edited by xdawgbeagles on 04-06-2005 at 07:46 PM

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Registered: Apr 2004
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Posts: 225

I hate to bring up old news but now I am really confused. I don't want to start any agruments on here but Seriously I don't know what to belive.

Earlier in the post Todd said that scoring the line verifies the rabbit. But today I got the new Better Beagling and In the UKC Q&A section it goes over this same senario and the dog that missed the line got minused. Both answers came from Todd so I don't know which is right. Can somebody please set me straight..LOL

Again not trying to stir anything up, just want to be sure I know what's going on in the field while judging....

Chaffin Crank

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Greenville, Ky
Posts: 4139

i think we should just call it a hole and go home. but i bet you if i was running that dog i posted the picture of it would have made the line.
did the majority score the line i thought only 2 dogs scored the line???? is the majority only 2 now or is it more than 2????

LOST ON HACKERS CREEK

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 49

the time running out saved the two that missed the line if the time had not run out and they blow up they would not get thier strike points time running out is same as a hole so the trac is finished.

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