Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Roseville Kentucky
Posts: 187

With the amount of money being spent on dogs, when do you guys think we will see the first dog cloned?

Right now its around $40-$50k i think to clone one. Like anything else as technology gets better i think price may drop some.

Has anyone heard of coon dog being cloned yet and I wonder if it would be as talented as the original?

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Registered: Jan 2004
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They never are the same as the original, too many factors that have to mesh together, from enviroment to training, not getting sick etc etc. always fun to think about

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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I haven't heard of any being cloned yet but it will come sooner than later!
Your right about the cost right at 50 grand but the cost of genetic preservation ($1,600 for DNA sample to be taken which is from the skin) and storage ($150 a year) is not unreasonable. I myself have considered doing that for possible future use. Like you said I would bet the cost will come down eventually and you never know when a financial situation could change.
With the price plenty of dogs are selling for right now I'm surprised none have considered it more seriously now. Most the hunters are average Joe's but there seems to be plenty with deep enough pockets floating around too.
The company I looked at, ViaGen, offers a 100% success in producing you a live puppy or your money back guarantee. They can't guarantee it will have the ability of old so and so, just the live twin genetically of him or her. That part would be up to you. It's virtually impossible to replicate the conditions environmentally that made that dog what it was but the genetics would be there 100%. I've always considered making a coondog 50% genetics and 50% environment. There is no shortcut on the boot leather but cloning offers the opportunity for a twin genetic match.
Registering them once produced would be the next hoop, single registration would probably be the key.
I imagine that 40 years ago the thought of frozen semen storage and breeding from it along with every dog have a DNA profile were never considered to ever go mainstream yet here we are.
How many have semen in storage for those future dreams at a shot of reproducing that dog of the past right now? How much are you willing to pay for it? Less than the cost of a new truck?

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Registered: Aug 2013
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quote:

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Originally posted by Lone Pine JB
wonder why DNA sample is so much? probably just because they can... When I first read this, I started wondering if frozen semen would have enough/right kind of DNA to clone.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Roseville Kentucky
Posts: 187

Its defiantly fun to think about, especially the ones that were strong reproducers. Being able to bring that back into the blood line and throw good pups.

It will happen just a matter of time before someone or a group of die hard guys decide to give it a try.

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Registered: May 2016
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You would have to clone the hunters also. The new generation isn't interested in the dogs we had that banged around on track. They want to see eyes with a quick strike attached to it. Even if the eyes are 1 mile from where the dog struck it. I am not saying anything against the newer generation of hunters. It is the old ones that never want to let go of the past. Cry about getting beat by the present. And just don't want to face the future.

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A dog cloned won't be the same every one will be different in nose, drive,hunt etc.

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The nation's top racing mule was cloned years back. It couldn't run like the original.

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That is what would happen. Cattle don't clone well. A coondog sure won't. The dang thing wouldn't even reproduced the same. Waste of time and money just to get disappointed.

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Mrs. Johnson been there with cattle it don't work I wanted to type more negative response but didn't I will leave this topic with this many coonhunters no longer have places to hunt and free cast dogs anymore also coonhunting is no longer a cheap hobby for most I can't imagine a bunch of hillbillies wasting money on cloning old spot

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Registered: Nov 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by wart
Mrs. Johnson been there with cattle it don't work I wanted to type more negative response but didn't I will leave this topic with this many coonhunters no longer have places to hunt and free cast dogs anymore also coonhunting is no longer a cheap hobby for most I can't imagine a bunch of hillbillies wasting money on cloning old spot

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Registered: Nov 2011
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If I were well off and had plenty of hunting spots…
I would probably clone a dog…but he would have to meet certain requirements…

1. He had to be a top hunting dog that produces well…

2. He was a calm and laid back dog until you dropped the tailgate…

3. He was of correct size, correct conformation and color…

4. His sire and dam were also top performers with the same look, were mild mannered until it was time to work…

5. Grand sire and dam were of same type of dogs…

The pup would be raised with a litter of pups…a few imprinting exercises starting at a week of age…and around 6 weeks imprinting and training exercises will be used to enhance his chances of making a top dog…not overdoing any one exercise…this would be the foundation prior to going into the woods…

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Mr. Ball I don't drink and my post did exactly what I intended it to do get someone like yourself to join the discussion maybe we can get 2 or 3 pages out of it instead of just 1 and finally you need to be hunting that nice 2 year old black dog you have. recently bought he wont be nice by getting on here only in the woods

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Reuben
If I were well off and had plenty of hunting spots…
I would probably clone a dog…but he would have to meet certain requirements…

1. He had to be a top hunting dog that produces well…

2. He was a calm and laid back dog until you dropped the tailgate…

3. He was of correct size, correct conformation and color…

4. His sire and dam were also top performers with the same look, were mild mannered until it was time to work…

5. Grand sire and dam were of same type of dogs…

The pup would be raised with a litter of pups…a few imprinting exercises starting at a week of age…and around 6 weeks imprinting and training exercises will be used to enhance his chances of making a top dog…not overdoing any one exercise…this would be the foundation prior to going into the woods…

---

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Registered: Nov 2011
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I guess if someone is just looking to clone a great dog that many of the dogs in the pedigree were just average, and you were mainly interested in recreating that dog then it would be ok to do so…

I tend to look beyond the pup or dog to see the potential or lack of…for two reasons…the first is in increasing my chances of getting the hunting dog I want…and second…the breeding potential…

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Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
That is what would happen. Cattle don't clone well. A coondog sure won't. The dang thing wouldn't even reproduced the same. Waste of time and money just to get disappointed.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by Driftwoodblue
most notable in the cattle.. there was a bull in the PBR-- Panhandle Slim -- big money winner too.- sold for Big money then, they found he had a terminal condition, cloned him, I know there were 6 that lived. 2 were destroyed early on account of they too mean to handle. 4 made it to the PBR ranks. 2 of those were a bit wicked both in the chute and after the rider hit the ground. the other 2 were not that wicked but they had some of those tendencies.
in performance terms they were not up to the level the original was.

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Registered: Nov 2012
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by wart
Mr. Ball I don't drink and my post did exactly what I intended it to do get someone like yourself to join the discussion maybe we can get 2 or 3 pages out of it instead of just 1 and finally you need to be hunting that nice 2 year old black dog you have. recently bought he wont be nice by getting on here only in the woods [/QUOTE

LOL i started the post me and couple guys were talking bout cloning the other night. Me and that dog have a love hate relation ship right now me and him aint talking. But we gonna mend our differences tonight i think in Tell City. Couple guys wanting to hunt.

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Rack'em Up Willy pup
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Cloning a coondog is an interesting topic to think about for sure. I personally can't see it ever being done because of the cost and the unknowns. The environmental factors involved in raising any kind of performance animal just can't be duplicated, no matter how hard we might try. That alone would make it impossible for a cloned dog to be exactly like the original in the woods. Granted, they could turn out better based on conditions, but that is unlikely.

I think one area it would be appealing to some folks is in the breeding pen. No matter what you say, the cloned dog is genetically an exact match to the original. That would mean that they would reproduce exactly like the original did. The problem factor is the genetic quality of the females (assuming the clone was male) that were bred to the clone. Just because the original reproduced well in their day doesn't mean they would reproduce well with today's females.

For instance, if we could clone Lipper, the coonhound who has had the most number of pups in history, technically it would be a genetic match for Lipper. We all know he was a great reproducer back in his day, but would he reproduce as well on modern females? Probably not. Genetic weaknesses coondogs had in the 80s (i.e. not enough tree power) aren't a problem in the majority of today's Walker bloodlines. Today we have a different set of weaknesses that Lipper may not be able to improve upon.

It is interesting to talk about, but ultimately, as I said before, I doubt it will ever be done in the coonhound world. Too much money and uncertainty for even the richest and most die-hard coondog enthusiasts.

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I have a dog currently stored at VIA GEN and will one day hope to elaborate more in depth about the results.

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Registered: Aug 2013
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I have a dog currently stored at VIA GEN and will one day hope to elaborate more in depth about the results.

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I talked to Russ Bellar a couple years and he took A LOT of tissue from What's Up Doc and put them in his freezer. He told me he wants to clone him one day.....don't be surprised if and when this happens!!!

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Registered: Nov 2012
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Here's the next question that will come up: how will the clone be registered? I don't mean what registry, but will the dog have a unique name? Will the clone use the same name and number as the original? Will the clone have to compete for titles or will they carry over from the original? Will the pups and stats of the clone be added to the PAD of the original?

I sure don't have the answer, but it does make for some interesting discussions. I mean, the dog is an exact genetic replica so I could see them using the same name and/or number. Or I guess they could do it like the titles now. You could have House's Lipper, the original, and House's Lipper(2) for the clone. This will definitely be a problem the registry is going to have to try to figure out.

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Surrogate mother…

While the cloned pup has the DNA of the parent that will be the cloned parent…the surrogate mother will not be the same as the cloned parents dam…the pup gets all its nutrients from a different dam whose hormones will probably react differently than the original dams…so that is a difference…the hormones that flows through the female will probably flow through the unborn pups…

Regardless…I would try it if I had the money to spare…
I would do all I could to get all my ducks in a row to ensure the highest probability in getting what I want…

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