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Quick question for wondering minds...

At what age do you think it is best for a female to have it's FIRST litter of puppies?

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Corey Gruver
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The breeds aren’t all the same, some breeds need bred very young before their bones are hardened but in my opinion hound breeds shouldn’t be bred before the second heat cycle.

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she proves she can track and be open mouth and tree a live seen coon 90 + percent of the time.

Now, if that happens before her first cycle so be it, if it doesn't happen before her fourth?? Dig a hole and move on.

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OLD TIMER

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quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
she proves she can track and be open mouth and tree a live seen coon 90 + percent of the time.

---

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Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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For me it all depends on several things...
First I have to like the bloodline and really like the female...once all this is good then I would breed her on her first heat cycle if I needed pups...

If I don’t need pups I might not breed her for a good while...

If I were trying to purify a new bloodline I would breed very often for three generations...

The meaning of purifying in this case just means that I picked the females correctly and I wanted to get three generations of good females...to further improve my chances of having a higher percentage of quality pups in each generation that follows...the more quality dogs in the immediate background gives a higher percentage of quality pups per litter thereafter...at least that is the goal...

I have bred a reasonable amount of females in their first heat period and they had excellent pups and went on to be excellent hunting dogs after the pups were weaned...

People might ask, how can you breed a 10 month old gyp if she isn’t totally finished out?
Well, when you know your dogs and you have observed you pups since they we a few days old and watched them progress to being excellent at what they are supposed to do...and as a 6 month old pup she is impressive for her age...and at 9 months she is a pretty decent dog and there is no doubt she will be a good one at a year and better at 1.5...these are the type I would breed on their first heat if I were to breed at that time...

Also, if wanting to improve your chances you keep as many female pups as you can and sometimes at 6 months you will be down to 2 or maybe one female...just making sure the best one is kept to further improve the bloodline...does that mean we are keeping the very best? No it doesn’t...but it is the best that we have at the time...that’s about the best we can do...

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Registered: Jun 2003
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With the shortage of Ammo today, I guess it maybe a good thing they are breeding the type of dog that is being hunted. Just look at the TOC night, would have only needed one shell??

PS: I have owned those and I have found that “papers” didn’t produce that type. My early hounds were grade and most of my hunting is Oct through Dec. And when it comes to Reg. hounds, PR is just as good if not better then all the BS in front of the letters PR. Having been around a few years and following some good ones, the problem started when people thought they where breeders and bred papers instead of performance. But hey, play the game you enjoy, I just know I have buried some “outstanding” papered dogs that would have saved the World lots of ammo but when I walk to a tree, there better be eyes with a ring tail looking at me because that’s why I hunt and feed them.

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Last edited by OLD TIMER on 04-29-2021 at 01:54 PM

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I'm still looking for that 90% accurate hound myself. Like big foot I've heard a lot about him but I've never seen it

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Thanks for the replies. Everyone has their preference as to what QUALIFIES a female to be bred. That's not necessarily what I am asking. I'll get 100 different answers to that question, and I already know what I think on that.

I am asking specifically about WHEN is the right time to breed a female for the first time, specifically in reference to her AGE. 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? I'm sure everyone has an opinion on what is too young and what is too old.

What does everyone think on that?

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Corey Gruver
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Never to young or to old

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OLD TIMER

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I think there are several thoughts on this. I will start with one that doesn't speak to the quality of the pups. Just the health of the female. Never breed one till their second heat cycle. As before that, they are generally still a puppy themselves and are still developing physically and mentally. Another thought on the subject is the one Old Timer mentioned. It is also the thought I agree with but won't put a percentage on the coon in the tree. The more the female aligns herself with the owners standards of what a coonhound should be. The better chance the owner has of getting some decent pups. The more the female aligns herself with the standards of what a coon hound should be in reality. Your chance of decent pups goes up. Way to many breeders let their vision cloud the vision of what a decent hound really is. It may take a couple years for the female to be ready to be considered breeding material. In todays world a female that is really nice is more valuable in the hunts that in a brood box.

Vic, I will agree that 90% is hard to achieve. I think 80% is a more realistic goal to accept and allow to speak to the quality of your dogs accuracy. Hunting with a Man right now that just moved down here. Over 3 weeks we have made 3 trips to the woods. Taken his English hound off 4 trees and he is 100%. Had to have the thermal unit to figure out the last tree had a coon but he was there.

Not having a bad day LOL but I have to agree with Old Timer again on the Paper Trail our dogs have. Way to much hype and dreams put into the pedigrees. You get pups that perform like the parents. If there is something you don't like. Don't breed because you will have that show up in the pups. It always comes back to haunt you. But if your just in it to sell them fast. It comes back to haunt someone else. That is where our hound breeding has went wrong.

Don't get me wrong. The papers can give an indication as to what to expect from a pup. So they are a tool to use. But the parents ability is what speaks louder. And any nonsense the parents in them, even speaks louder than ability.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by J. Pinson
I'm still looking for that 90% accurate hound myself. Like big foot I've heard a lot about him but I've never seen it

---

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When you're ready to hunt a pup off the female.

Probably around 3 or 4 at earliest.

But I'm not into raising/selling pups. I only want to breed for pups that I want to hunt, and if there are extras to sell, so be it.

Now the breeders that have most pups sold before they're ever born look at things differently. But I think Randy even waits until they're about 4 or older after they've been campaigned and done their own fair share of winning.

It would be nice if there was a way to flush eggs and keep for long term like there is for semen. I know they do it with sheep, so their probably is a way, but what the cost is could be the issue.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Corey Gruver
Thanks for the replies. Everyone has their preference as to what QUALIFIES a female to be bred. That's not necessarily what I am asking. I'll get 100 different answers to that question, and I already know what I think on that.

I am asking specifically about WHEN is the right time to breed a female for the first time, specifically in reference to her AGE. 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? I'm sure everyone has an opinion on what is too young and what is too old.

What does everyone think on that?

---

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Corey,

I like to wait till the second heat cycle just to let the female mature some. I have bred on the first cycle with no issues, just my personal preference.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Corey Gruver
Thanks for the replies. Everyone has their preference as to what QUALIFIES a female to be bred. That's not necessarily what I am asking. I'll get 100 different answers to that question, and I already know what I think on that.

I am asking specifically about WHEN is the right time to breed a female for the first time, specifically in reference to her AGE. 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? I'm sure everyone has an opinion on what is too young and what is too old.

What does everyone think on that?

---

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Some great responses here! Really gets the brain blood pumpin'...

All of my experience raising litters of puppies has come from bitches that were 4+ years old. Some for the first time, others were experienced 'brooders'. One female that I had raised five litters during her 12 years on Earth, one of those litters coming from her first or second year (I can't remember exactly). She was an exceptional mother, even after whelping her last litter at 9 years old.

I would think from a general health standpoint, it would be an advantage to a gyp (that would be purposefully used in some kind of breeding program), to be bred once by the time she turns 2 years old.

That's why I'm asking, very interested to hear peoples thoughts and gain some scope into better breeding practices. Thanks again and keep it coming.

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I seen there's a 3 page post about divorce and some of that was probably because of females with younger eggs???

The percentage of coon in the tree has nothing to do with the amount of hunting nights--using Bruce's 80%, that means 8 out of 10 trees has a coon or 80 out of 100 or 800 out of 1000. I started out with a female in the 50's that was in the 90%, her son was even higher. In the 70's I had a Bluetick that was 80%+. I had Reg Redbones in the 60's up to today that overall where/are in the 80%+. I feed them to tree coon not trees. I don't carry a score card but a .22 and I don't carry it just to look the part. I had the privilege of meeting and talking with Dave Dean in the 80's and I asked him "What do you breed for?" And I meant like voice-nose or color but his comment was "what ever the score card calls for." So today there are "things" your dog doesn't need when you carry a scorecard but my .22 still judges a hound like it did back in the 50's. And thank you to the guys and gals that also don't like walking in the dark to empty trees.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Corey Gruver
Some great responses here! Really gets the brain blood pumpin'...

All of my experience raising litters of puppies has come from bitches that were 4+ years old. Some for the first time, others were experienced 'brooders'. One female that I had raised five litters during her 12 years on Earth, one of those litters coming from her first or second year (I can't remember exactly). She was an exceptional mother, even after whelping her last litter at 9 years old.

I would think from a general health standpoint, it would be an advantage to a gyp (that would be purposefully used in some kind of breeding program), to be bred once by the time she turns 2 years old.

That's why I'm asking, very interested to hear peoples thoughts and gain some scope into better breeding practices. Thanks again and keep it coming.

---

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Seneca , MO
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Last edited by Redneck Mafia on 04-29-2021 at 07:27 PM

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You can come here or you can go to MO and Jerry Anderson said he’ll take Thunder or Scout and you will see eyes 90+% of the time. And you will hear bawl on track and with Thunder a chop on tree and Scout short bawls on tree. I know what he feeds and he’s hunt hounds from me. Just saying

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OLD TIMER

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quote:

---

Originally posted by J. Pinson
I'm still looking for that 90% accurate hound myself. Like big foot I've heard a lot about him but I've never seen it

---

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Donald Bergeron

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I guess the folks that own these 90 percent accurate dogs just never attend Competition Hunts? They could sure clean house if they’d enter up?

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Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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I apologize for hijacking your post Corey!

Been some good thoughts shared, not too young or not too old in the physical sense. If she makes you smile more often than not in the coon treeing department.

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Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by OLD TIMER
You can come here or you can go to MO and Jerry Anderson said he’ll take Thunder or Scout and you will see eyes 90+% of the time. And you will hear bawl on track and with Thunder a chop on tree and Scout short bawls on tree. I know what he feeds and he’s hunt hounds from me. Just saying

---

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