Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Okay the get gone go for miles type hounds or the stay busy hunt the area out hound. How much is in there DNA and how much is in the area they were trained in? Let's talk about 2 to 3 year old hounds hunted and trained in the same area. Let's say at first in an area of thick coon. Most times within 500 yds they strike a track. So no need to go a mile most nights. Now a dog in thin coon may have to go a mile before they strike a track. So a dog trained in thin coon has to go father and probably fast than one in thick coon. Over the 2 years of training does this shape the dog or is it all DNA stamped in and doesn't matter how the coon population is because a hard going hound goes hard regardless? Let's talk most hounds and leave the duds and super dogs out.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Always have heard this "genetics deal the cards, but environment plays the hand". I think area definitely plays into the picture, but some are predisposed to act differently, that is to cast further than actually needed to find the game. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Always have heard this "genetics deal the cards, but environment plays the hand". I think area definitely plays into the picture, but some are predisposed to act differently, that is to cast further than actually needed to find the game. Dave

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

These are hog dogs and not coon dogs but not much difference in outcomes...

I cast my dogs and they will range out quite a ways to strike a hog...

When roading my dogs they will take colder tracks...

A friend of my has the same type of dogs and his dogs hunt different than mine...his don’t range as far and they appear to be hotter nosed than mine...

The difference I believe is in hunting styles...my friend drives and doesn’t hunt with the dogs...the dogs try to keep up with him and they don’t take cold tracks or they get left behind...so they are looking for hotter tracks...

I hunt slow and if the dogs get interested in a scent I stop and encourage them to work it and if they try to work it out I wait until they line it out or come back...
When I cast my dogs I wait until they are gone before I move...

He dumps his dogs and heads out...

For me it’s about getting the most out of my dogs...always

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 419

I know a man who squirrel hunts and when getting his dogs ready for competition squirrel hunts roads hunts them miles a day on national Forest land he drives fairly fast so the wind hot squirrels only and tree them that's how he wants them to operate in competition hunts. He won't walk hunt much at all before hunting in competition he says the mess with colder game and he doesn't want that similar to Reubens friend with his hog dogs so the hunter himself has as much as DNA,area, does

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Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 246

I can tell you this I hear all kinds of things about the rat attack bloodline basically the crazy slick treeing stuff I would guess everyone has heard this before. But I have had several of them and not found this out at all. The ones I had open on track good and want to have the coon. I want rat attack in all my dogs up close as I can. Now is it how I train them or their dna. I believe Dave has said all that needs to be said because that's the truest statement I have seen.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Clovis, I think it is a combination of things. Mainly a change in time. Rat Attack put a lot of tree into his pups. When they arrived on the scene the training of our hounds by the majority of people was different. They were so happy to finally have a tree dog. They were not corrected. Also from then until now the blood in the Rat Attack dogs has been watered down enough. You not getting the ice tea as strong as you did back then. Everyone talks about BALANCE. Over the years to find that balance, you usually started out with a line of hounds that were not balanced. Too much of one thing to too much of another. The hunters could put up with it even though they shouldn't. But some of the breeders understood the strengths of their breeding stock along with the weakness in them. So they worked to balance things out. Those pups improved while others that were just breeding for pups and money did nothing to improve things.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

As long as they give $$$ for dead cast or circle slicks you will never have balance.



Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar isn't that putting the blame on a situation for what you have on your leash. I take responsibility for what's on the end of my leash. I don't care what the rules are, I know what I expect from a dog. Generally those expectations are sound and can win every now and then. At least they can tree me a coon.
Tar, I know your smarter than that. You must be baiting me into a trap. LOL

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 04-27-2020 at 02:42 AM

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
As long as they give $$$ for dead cast or circle slicks you will never have balance.



Tar

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar isn't that putting the blame on a situation for what you have on your leash. I take responsibility for what's on the end of my leash. I don't care what the rules are, I know what I expect from a dog. Generally those expectations are sound and can win every now and then. At least they can tree me a coon.
Tar, I know your smarter than that. You must be baiting me into a trap. LOL

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Last edited by yadkintar on 04-27-2020 at 02:07 PM

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location:
Posts: 1520

I am REALLY old school. I agree with Tar, but, I question in a money hunt if there is no plus points no winners. What happens to the money????

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy Grant
I am REALLY old school. I agree with Tar, but, I question in a money hunt if there is no plus points no winners. What happens to the money????

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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Well tar got us off topic somehow. But to get back on topic and table the no coon and win topic for another thread, if DNA deals the hand and training plays it. What traits can not be manipulated by environment, or is there any?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Oops but to much tree you might can help it a little but what I meant was it’s more accepted nowadays.


Tar

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

quote:

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Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Well tar got us off topic somehow. But to get back on topic and table the no coon and win topic for another thread, if DNA deals the hand and training plays it. What traits can not be manipulated by environment, or is there any?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

Loved your post, but common sense don't seem to be very common these days. Some don't care just as long as they can sell the pups. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 791

quote:

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Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Okay the get gone go for miles type hounds or the stay busy hunt the area out hound. How much is in there DNA and how much is in the area they were trained in? Let's talk about 2 to 3 year old hounds hunted and trained in the same area. Let's say at first in an area of thick coon. Most times within 500 yds they strike a track. So no need to go a mile most nights. Now a dog in thin coon may have to go a mile before they strike a track. So a dog trained in thin coon has to go father and probably fast than one in thick coon. Over the 2 years of training does this shape the dog or is it all DNA stamped in and doesn't matter how the coon population is because a hard going hound goes hard regardless? Let's talk most hounds and leave the duds and super dogs out.

---

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

quote:

---

Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Okay the get gone go for miles type hounds or the stay busy hunt the area out hound. How much is in there DNA and how much is in the area they were trained in? Let's talk about 2 to 3 year old hounds hunted and trained in the same area. Let's say at first in an area of thick coon. Most times within 500 yds they strike a track. So no need to go a mile most nights. Now a dog in thin coon may have to go a mile before they strike a track. So a dog trained in thin coon has to go father and probably fast than one in thick coon. Over the 2 years of training does this shape the dog or is it all DNA stamped in and doesn't matter how the coon population is because a hard going hound goes hard regardless? Let's talk most hounds and leave the duds and super dogs out.

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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