Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Actually about 55 years ago. I started dreaming about having that hunting hound. Kind of like Peterhunts is sharing with us on here about his wanting to hunt.
First venture was with some fox hunters. We cut the dogs loose, had a race and then spent the rest of the day looking for dogs. Was a honor code back then to help your buddy get his dog before anyone went home. Me, I wanted more interaction with the dogs than just listening to them. I wanted to be in there with them. So Coon Hunting became a desire. It gave me all the interaction I could stand.

Well yesterday I had a chance to revisit my beginning. I went to the FL State Fox Hunt. I saw very close to 300 hounds turned loose at one time. Not 4 dog cast. 300 let loose to run. You think coon hounds babble. LOL While the dogs were hunting for 5 hours and the judges were scoring them. The owners were cooking at their campers, going to town for breakfast, or just sitting around and enjoying conversation. The dog owners had nothing to do for 5 hours. No pressure on them like a coon hound handler to make a call on their dogs or walk a mile through a swamp to get them off a tree. The entry fee was $61 and some had as many as 16 dogs entered.

After talking with several families that had 3 and 4 generations of family members there and asking the same questions people keep asking on here. I have come to the conclusion the genetics of all dogs have vastly changed over the years. Them dogs babble. I was asked if the pups barked in the pens. The answer was, they make a lot more noise then they use to do. I asked about them being mean. Answer was, many of them are. I asked just what the main difference in today and yesterday was. They said the seemed to be a lot more wire'ed today than yesterday. In other words a totally different breed of hounds have taken the same path in life as our coon hounds. I asked the final questions. Would you rather have one from today or yesterday. They all remembered good hounds from their past. But todays hounds is what they want. Talking to 3 generations of people about their line of hounds. Gave me this view. Grand Pa in his 70's just raise the pups now. The younger guys have the understanding and patience to train them. I asked why that was. Grand Pa said they don't see them as being crazy like I can sometimes, compared to my old hounds. They just see them as Fox Hounds and they hunt and enjoy them. He added he, loves seeing his Family hunting hounds together. Their Family hasn't changed because the hounds have.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 428

Great story Bruce! I wish more families hunted together. There are so many life lessons to learn from having and starting hunting dogs.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

Bruce, no offence but I think you got the results you were looking for. I have been around Running Walkers, July, etc. most of my life. The things held important in these breeds is still the same all these years later. Honest mouth, cold nose, track speed, non aggression. They can be noisy in the kennel, but will eat together and can be stuffed into a dog box without fights. Mean, mouthy running dogs were and are culled hard.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I have trained dogs a long time back in the day a dog pulled up short you corrected them and made them end up with the meat. The old style dogs I have are for the most part just like that. Now what I started noticing with the newer stuff if you got a sure enough track dog that gets to pulling on them they will pull up short. I even took one of my females that won a lot of hunts by being accurate all her litters and I am hunting one out of her now have been accurate. I bred her the time before this one to the sire of this years ukc world champion all the dogs in that litter pull up short when out run or even by their self. You try to correct them they will not go on they think they finished the track. With the leaves off you cut them they drop in 500 yrds get struck work the track 500 yrds get treed but you never see a coon even near by. Hunted dogs out of their grand sire and great grand sire and seen the same thing in a lot of them. when one is like that I could not fix it. Far as mean dogs and mouthy dogs we always had them we just culled them instead of using it as an advantage to win hunts.


I see bad unfixable genetics in today's dogs because their pedigrees are saturated with the dogs that reproduce those faults.


Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I can find some loose lips here. Video from a friend taken this morning when they were cut loose.


https://youtu.be/uZauKFcaT9I

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 03-01-2019 at 04:49 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Video don't work Bruce. I am heading to the rabbit woods.


Tar

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Registered: Dec 2018
Location: South Florida
Posts: 118

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Actually about 55 years ago. I started dreaming about having that hunting hound. Kind of like Peterhunts is sharing with us on here about his wanting to hunt.
First venture was with some fox hunters. We cut the dogs loose, had a race and then spent the rest of the day looking for dogs. Was a honor code back then to help your buddy get his dog before anyone went home. Me, I wanted more interaction with the dogs than just listening to them. I wanted to be in there with them. So Coon Hunting became a desire. It gave me all the interaction I could stand.

Well yesterday I had a chance to revisit my beginning. I went to the FL State Fox Hunt. I saw very close to 300 hounds turned loose at one time. Not 4 dog cast. 300 let loose to run. You think coon hounds babble. LOL While the dogs were hunting for 5 hours and the judges were scoring them. The owners were cooking at their campers, going to town for breakfast, or just sitting around and enjoying conversation. The dog owners had nothing to do for 5 hours. No pressure on them like a coon hound handler to make a call on their dogs or walk a mile through a swamp to get them off a tree. The entry fee was $61 and some had as many as 16 dogs entered.

After talking with several families that had 3 and 4 generations of family members there and asking the same questions people keep asking on here. I have come to the conclusion the genetics of all dogs have vastly changed over the years. Them dogs babble. I was asked if the pups barked in the pens. The answer was, they make a lot more noise then they use to do. I asked about them being mean. Answer was, many of them are. I asked just what the main difference in today and yesterday was. They said the seemed to be a lot more wire'ed today than yesterday. In other words a totally different breed of hounds have taken the same path in life as our coon hounds. I asked the final questions. Would you rather have one from today or yesterday. They all remembered good hounds from their past. But todays hounds is what they want. Talking to 3 generations of people about their line of hounds. Gave me this view. Grand Pa in his 70's just raise the pups now. The younger guys have the understanding and patience to train them. I asked why that was. Grand Pa said they don't see them as being crazy like I can sometimes, compared to my old hounds. They just see them as Fox Hounds and they hunt and enjoy them. He added he, loves seeing his Family hunting hounds together. Their Family hasn't changed because the hounds have.

---

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: West Columbia TX
Posts: 112

Can’t say for sure because I wasn’t around 50 years ago but from what I can tell hunting the truly older bloodline of dogs compared to the new style dog is the new stuff is all together more hyper in everything they do. I’m not saying they are all poop smearing idiots but do bark in kennel a lot more, take longer to learn how to effectively run a track ect

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Maybe this link will work.

https://youtu.be/uZauKFcaT9I

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Stx your point is the point I am try to make. But then take the conclusion you made which I agree with. One step further.

It comes down to the owner/trainer to understand what they have and make a nice hound out of it.

Too many guys that were born in the past want to live in the past. Todays younger generation don't have a clue what they are talking about.

A mans standards either today or yesterday decided they type of hound they owned. Accept less and you will have less.

The dogs only responded to all the breeding methods that were used to develop them for the past 50 years. Don't blame them for being hyper. Just blame yourself if you can't take a hyper one and make a coondog out of it. If you are stuck with old methods of operation and can't train one. Thats because you let the genie out of the bottle before it was ready to appear and give you everything in a coon dog you ever wanted.

These pups still have to be evaluated and culled. Just using a different process than you did 50 years ago. Many of their issues are the results of yesterdays methods used in training.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Bruce I know you have hunted all your life buuuuut I can go get some and send you that will change your whole thought process! Now 1979 is my beginning the winningest hunters I was around bred their best dog to their best female regardless of papers. Registration papers are nothing but a record. A dog when it takes its first breath is born with its reproducing abilitys. The problem really started and you notice it in the treeing walker breed the most. The all grand pedigree !! I am right here where most of it started ! You take a dog that is already known for throwing pain in the butt pups and you stack him up to 5 times to get an all grand pedigree is it a surprise to you the pups are worse pain in the butts ? Now unless you are more patient than I think you are your like me you won't even have one of those on your place. I don't need all that drama for very little reward. I asked one of those breeders how do you stand it he said you got to hunt them 7 nights a week and mine don't do that.



I said your 75 yrs old and you sell your pups at 8 weeks old is why yours don't do that !


Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar, I cannot disagree with what your saying about stacking pedigrees for titles and ending up less than what you desired. Perhaps many should have been culled if the truth to be know. Only to find a way to title them and keep that line of titles moving forward.

There are honest Men doing this and dishonest Men. There are honest men with some great titled lines. Just have to know where to spend your money.

But none of that means you can take a modern bred hound and have a great pup. Just have to have some modern thinking as honest breeding has moved forward while many of the old time trainers haven't.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Oh I agree. My female I bred to a son of bad habit to get her but I did it because I hunted with habit and rehab and I knew that rehab produced lil Cobb that placed up high in the $$$ world hunt I liked their track speed and accuracy I did not breed for the pedigree.



I am hip , current , and groovy seeee lol.


Tar

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: sc
Posts: 160

Mr. Conkey i feel every true houndsman, no matter if you run deer, coon, rabbits hogs etc are missing out if they’ve never heard the roar of 200 plus dogs turned out in a fox pen. It’s incredible.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

Good ole honesty, which I believe is missing in our modern day hunting. I have enjoyed hunting tree dogs sense I was in grade school starting out with a good squirrel dog and then on to hounds in high school. Seems we always had something that would tree a squirrel, possum, groundhog or coon about most of my young life. I never got into the competition end of it until the mid 70's. I sure enough drew out with some fine hounds in every breed. They all seemed to be more level headed, less mean and more honest back then. Not as quick as now or as tree minded which is what it takes in the hunts now. But IMO may take away from the quality of our hounds now. I don't buy any made dogs now or never did for that matter. I usually start with a pup and work with it, have done it for years. I've raised many litters of pups and do enjoy it but I'm getting very hard to please and it's getting harder to find what I like and want in a good hound. I want todays track speed and quick tree without giving up accuracy and less aggressiveness. They're out there and they may not have a big title hanging on them either. Like said before, look before you leap. Also, I tried fox hunting when I was in high school, just not for me but them fox hounds can make it sound exciting. I just need an end product and fox hunting didn't do it for me.

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Registered: Jan 2016
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Maybe this link will work.

https://youtu.be/uZauKFcaT9I

---

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Dan

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Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
So my question is how much fox scent is left to run after the 1st 20 hounds have been over it. My guess is at least 95% of those hounds are running nothing at all or dog.

Guess everyone attending was having a good time. Which counts for something. Would not be my bag.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 628

Are these trials you speak of conducted in the wild or an enclosure?

To some degree the format you describe is similar to AKC Large Pack on Hare except the shear number of hounds. Most LPOH trials are well under 100 entries with the exception of National/International annual events.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 780

I've only been to ones inside fences, But I heard that down south they would have huge events on the outside. Would have loved to been there.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

This event was in a 1000 acre pen. What you saw was the hounds being turned out of the pens for the statt of the hunt. They will break down inti smaller packs on their own and run and run and run

They also have hunts on the outside of pens down here. Actually what these dogs will run most of tbe day is yotes.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

This summer we will run up to this pen and keep some deer hounds in shape. They charge just a few bucks a dog to run amd you can drive your truck or side by side in there and watch the game cross in front of the dogs.

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