Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I saw a lot of things at this years world hunt that I and many others have been preaching on here for years.
Before I get into those things, let me say that I listened to the Final Cast interview on Facebook and UKC and the Owners/Co Owners of these hounds are a class act. Great job on UKC's part and and Great job from the owners representing the sport and doing it in a Professional manner.

Never easy getting to the finals in one of these hunts and we had dogs that represented both ends of the spectrum when it comes to coonhounds. We had a Black female that came from a long line of winning black dogs. We had another another female for a kennel where they raise train and win with what they breed and have been at the big dance before.
Then we had the cross bred hound. The breed just recognized by UKC a couple years ago made its mark and opened some eyes. The cross bred winning wasn't any surprise to me. What I love about the cross bred hound is UKC permitted those dogs to be registered as a breed and allowed the world to see that accomplishment. For too many years there have been cross breds mixed into the other breeds and not allowed to be talked about. Thanks UKC for changing that now.
Several things we have discussed on here for years came to light in this years World Hunt.
1.We have talked about the North vs South thing for years. A coondog is a coondog no matter where you hunt it. If you have a good one Congratulations. The South just exposes the dogs mistakes more. Your not going to tree enough coon to get away with getting minus and then make a big comeback. I think that was evident at this hunt. I have said on here for years. All it takes is one or two coon with no or very few minus and you will win most cast and hunts. Train to eliminate the minus points is a must if you live and hunt in the South. We all have coon treeing hounds. In the South we want a Coon Treeing hound that doesn't also get minus.
2. The thing about the cross bred hound has arrived. The cross bred hound arrived a long time ago. Many years ago the $kc gave the cross bred hound recognition and its own breed status the same thing happened. Back in the beginning of $kc it took 13 hounds with $100 dollars won to have a state hunt or breed hunt. Many breeds and states were struggling to achieve this in the beginning. The Cross bred was recognized and hunted and achieved the status to have a breed hunt while the Plots, red and blue dogs were struggling. The Breed Races are public information. Go over that and look at the results for this year. The Cross Bred has impressive stats compared to the other breeds. Right now there is one Blue dog in the country that has won over $1,000 this year. There are over 6 cross bred dogs being hunted that have over $1,000 won. Look at the cross bred numbers for the year and compare them to the Plott Hounds stats. $60 will get you listed in the top 16 while $60 won with a cross bred hound won't even get you listed.
3. Thing I found interesting is when asked about Sambo's UKC hunts. The owner said yea he made him Grand Night and it took about 10 hunts. Many have said on here that if you have a good hound it shouldn't take years.
4. What I think UKC and many others should of listened to is when Allen asked them about their hounds accomplishments what the answers were. Long list of accomplishments and money won by two of them in other Kennel Clubs. The fact they made their hounds Grand Nights wasn't even close to any of accomplishments mentioned. Maybe UKC will realize then need to give the hound more to hunt for and the people out there will realize a Grand Night isn't all that.

The important thing to take away is we have to Congratulate UKC and the Men involved in this years World Hunt. They made it an enjoyable week of Coon Hound News. Yes there was only one final cast and there was only one World Champion. But please remember there were a lot of good men and dogs in the top 100 that either caught a bad break or just got beat by a better hound on a particular night. Rerun this past week again and you would probably have a different winner. I didn't say that to take anything away from Sambo as I was at the SS hunt that he won a couple years ago and his owner at that time Wes is a good man and friend. I said that because it is just the fact about the game we play with our hounds. A man's standards, determination and drive get him and his hound in the winners circle.
I thank all of you that made it a interesting week for Coon Hunting!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Ok Bruce I am kinda excited about this my question to you is I am a believer that do to the all grand situation in a lot of cases dogs were bred to tight to achieve it and it has created a bunch of health issues is this the antidote to bring in fresh blood and fix this. And for instance in my mind blueticks are slower more methodical colder nosed more sure tree dogs the walkers are more throw caution to the wind track driving somtimes not so accurate tree dogs so sambo was the right mix in my opinion.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

I Only got one thing Bruce, in the other KC many of the cross bred dogs are not really cross bred. There are single registered dogs that the owner didn't bother sending a copy of the UKC papers in. When they do that they are registered as cross bred. They also do that because it is easier to get in the national race for the cross bred dogs.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar I think I agree with you but I take it a few steps further and a little deeper. Which you probably do also.
I have said this and been laughed at on here since this board first came into existence many years ago. Look at the coonhound breeds. There use to be six recognized by UKC and now there are a couple more. If you look at the breeds using several different numbers posted by several different registration offices you see one pattern. The breeds that have the fewer influx of out side genetics because of a color standard are on the lower end of the scale in both UKC reproducing percentages and in $kc money won. Now you couple that with certain people in those breeds having a jealous tendency and you limit outside genetics even more.
Not saying what they are doing is wrong. It is their dogs and their line of dogs. Just the facts do show that is not the path I want for my dogs. They are good people, they go hunting and their dogs perform up to their standards. They just don't perform up to the standards to catch the eye of anybody else without hype that they have something special.
The Walker dog has had probably more different blood brought into the breed than any other registered dog with the exception of the cross bred hound.

There are slick treeing dogs everywhere and they are a result of what we have bred for without choosing to cull. We accomplished one thing but didn't bury our mistakes.

There are two medical things ruining our dogs right now. One is the issues and problems from ticks. Just thinking of the money I have to spend over the next few years dealing with tick issues is painful. But more painful is the fact that after spending the money the preventive you give will also affect some hounds.
Now the Thyroid issue is one that will not be solved in my life time and guys reading this 10 to 15 years from now may have more proven facts because Vets are learning more everyday about it. I have read many times your feeling it is hereditary and from the Wipeout Hounds. I have had more non Wipeout Blooded hounds over the years with a thyroid problem. I think it is seen and treated more in the wipeout hounds because you have a hard hunting super accurate hound that changes. Easy to see a change is a top performing hound than to see one in a hound that has been mediocre all its life.
There is something in the feed causing this. No, I am not claiming one brand of feed is the problem. Just like the food Americans eat has changed and the body styles of all the young people in America has changed. This may sound negative but is a prime example. How many young men in their early teens to you see with large breast. It is the food combined with activity that is causing this. Go to a food court in a mall and watch the people sit down. You wonder how the chair can hold their weight. I am not being mean but discussing something we as people have become due to the food processing America has went to. The same with our dogs.
Tar, I don't care if you breed them yourself, cross breed till your blue in the face, or just hop form one line of dogs to another. You will have a good dog when you set your standards high and realize there is a dog out there that can meet your standards and you shouldn't settle for less.

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Registered: Oct 2010
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Don't worry boys I have one in the making that will regain us walker breeders our glory congrats to the crossbreed folks this year

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Bruce you and I remember when dogs competed 3 and 4 hrs on just regular old dog food now we have special feed , pills of all kinds , they are sick all the time. Born with defects that you have no idea where it came from maybe taking a different mix on things would in all cases make our dogs healthier in the long run and you would have a bigger recipe of traits to pick from let's face it the walkers are getting so one dimensional you have to go back to a seman dog dead 30 yrs to get a dog that will hunt all its ground instead of bee lining it to the next county every drop and getting one to slow down and tree a lay up is becoming extinct.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 454

Here is my ?, did the thyroid and tick issue just come into existence in the last few years or have we had dogs with these issues and just didn't know what was causing it. I think back to some of the problems I had with dogs 30 years ago and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they had a tick disease or a thyroid problem. As far as cross breeds go I know guys that bear hunt and deer hunt with hounds that ain't got a clue what dog papers are, and they have kept dogs that produce game for years.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Mr. Jamerson, I agree with you on the problems have probably been around a lot longer then we think.

I had a nice female that went from the best I owned to the worse I owned in a couple months. She got overweight also. I wish I had her today. I would have her to a vet in a minute and guiding the vet on what to look for. Many vets are still in the dark. Which not be fair to say because they have to deal with issues and verify treatments over time to put their reputation on the line in treating them.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
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My grandfather ran fox hounds back in the early 60s. I ticked his hounds by pulling the ticks off and dropping them into a Vienna sausage can half full of coal oil. The hounds would be covered in ticks, big ones and small ones. I didn't ever bother with the tiny ones. Each dog would have hundreds of ticks. There was nothing to put on them to prevent ticks and we didn't have a wormer except to shove a piece of chewing tobacco down their throat.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Back in 60s when i started hunting we called them just a Grade dog !! now they are x-breed dogs !! back then in 60s and early 70s i would say to myself !! if i only could get a reg hound to tree coon the way these things do i would have something !! it took me 30 yrs - + to achieve that in the hounds i hunt today!! Know what kind of dog you want and strive to achieve it !! regardless what breed you have !! some try easy road and some take the road that no one wants to travel much !! easy to get Quanity !! harder to get quality !!!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1671

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joey
[B]I Only got one thing Bruce, in the other KC many of the cross bred dogs are not really cross bred. There are single registered dogs that the owner didn't bother sending a copy of the UKC papers in. When they do that they are registered as cross bred. They also do that because it is easier to get in the national race for the cross bred dogs.
100% spot on! And Bruce said the walker breed has brought in more different bllod than any other breed. Well I disagree. Think of the single registered English and how liberal their standard was to get one single registered. If Sambo was single registered he would be an English. Has everyone forgotten Hardtime Speck and how he was bred? I remember more than one walker that was ticked up and single registered as English. Sambo is nothing new other than a new name.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location:
Posts: 1520

I was reading this article, very good by the way..And yes Hardtime Speck ran thru my mind. Do you guys think all the line breeding is hurting all breeds. It doubles up the bad and weaknesses as well as the strenghs

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