Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

Suggestions to make a $100 point a $300 with very minor increases. Helping hunters who are entering the hunts and increasing interest for some who aren't. Mostly bringing attendance up and helping the local clubs out.
1.$10-20 increase to performance register one.
2.$10-20 increase to nominate a litter.
3.$20-30 fee to nominate a dam before breeding.
4.$25-50 increase in Performance sire fee.
5. Don't waste paper, envelopes, postage or man hours mailing checks under $50
6. Add a $1 fee per dog entered at a hunt to be placed directly in the performance fund.
Any 3 of these suggestions will more than double the fund, all will more than triple it.
This program has become stagnant and losing interest rapidly.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

H.w. Now this is just my opinion we can not compete with the $$$ kcs for money in any fashion. In ukc you have to see a coon and hang on to your plus points for the whole hunt to place. In the $$$ hunts yes the top winners are coon treers buuuuuuut if they get in bad woods or have a bad hunt there is still going to be a winner. Ukc don't need to butt heads with the $$$ kcs it's simple go back to the old way and give more opertunities to win you go to a hunt now let's say 3 ntchs and 3 redgistered only 2 people win and make champions out of their dog ( that's a cheap title ) that's what they are hunting for nobody around here ever even talks about performance points or money. Place your cast winners first then finish out through 10th place with non cast winners with plus points cast winners only qualify for performance points numbers will go up titles will be harder to win tar guarentees it because I seen it work before.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

I would be satisfied if they just allowed Grand Nites to hunt with Nite Chs at the local level.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

I'm fine with $100 per point as long as the costs stay the same. I don't care to pay more to nominate or pay up a dog. The dog I'm hunting right now cost me $25 to put in the program. She has 2.1 points. That means she made back more than 5 times my investment in the program and and she isn't near done for the year. I just don't see the problem with that. The only change I really see that would improve the program is figuring out a way to pay points for RQE's, SS, Youth Hunts, etc. I think every win you get should pay points.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

Not intended to compete with anyone simply bring point values up, which will increase attendance while helping the clubs and giving back to the hunters.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jim do you not think if you gave more opertunities to win numbers would go up and put more money in the program ? Why I ask is if somthing is not done promptly I know several clubs down here that are going to close down lack of interest has killed us and numbers are so low we are just barley hanging on. Not being negative just giving the reality of it.


Somtimes I have to take money out of my pocket to put on the hunt.



Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I am not sure UKC is interested in the performance program.
I have several people that ask me questions when they are registering their pups. Several people in the past month had their paper work filled out and did not know that they had to put a note and send in an extra $30 for to get their pup in the program.

How hard could it be to put a place on the back of the Registration form to put and x and send in $30 or $100 dollars if your between 6 months and one year.
Still haven't found the form.
I wonder how many people register performance pups thinking they are in the performance program only to find out they are not, because they didn't send extra money. I know most people won't send in a $100 if they miss it the first time.

Here is a conversation I had with the registration dept. about 4 months ago.

I wrote: Here is what it says on your website.
Steps Involved

Nominate a Performance Sire
Breed to a Performance Sire
Nominate the litter
Permanent register & nominate the individual dogs
Go to UKC Licensed Nite Hunt events to earn Performance Points

Ok I have a performance Sire.
I have some puppy papers here to send in and I don't see on the papers where to permanently nominate them for the performance program.

Is that a separate form you fill out?

UKC wrote: Yes. It's called a Application for Permanent Nomination.

ME: Can you point out where that form is. I can't seem to find it on your website. Thanks


UKC: You don't need that form. You can just send in a note with your papers stating that you are including the fee to nominate the dog for the Performance Program.

Me: One last question. I appreciate all you do on here so I apologize for all these questions. The last pup I registered I miss registering it as a performance pup until the price got to
100 bucks because I thought I did. Also on your papers it is a little confusing because you use the term performance pedigree which is something totally different. Many people think that is for the Performance Program also.

What is the cost for permanent nomination and at what age does it change. That is a helpful fact.

It is $30.00 to do the permanent nomination until the dog turns 6 months of age. When the dog turns 6 months of age the fee goes up to $100.00. If the dog has not been permanently nominated into the Performance Program by the time it turns a year of age it then becomes ineligible for nomination.

I really think a lot of people are not getting their pups in the program because of the confusion to do so.

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Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
I'm fine with $100 per point as long as the costs stay the same. I don't care to pay more to nominate or pay up a dog. The dog I'm hunting right now cost me $25 to put in the program. She has 2.1 points. That means she made back more than 5 times my investment in the program and and she isn't near done for the year. I just don't see the problem with that.

---

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Bethel springs TN
Posts: 92

I dont think anyone around here is really interested in the performance program at any payout. They want to put the title on their dogs no matter how cheap it looks to say they can tree a coon and go hunt for money in $kc. Even there its not about the money won they are interested in state races and standings. A few hundred dollars really holds nothing compared to bragging rights of being in the top of a state or breed race the publicity and everyone seeing your name and dogs name monthly in a magazine.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, Mr Moore, that sounds just like a Democratic tax proposal... Increase taxes to increase benefits. Sounds great in theory but doesn't work in practice. When you increase fees you will decrease participation which will decrease revenue. Maybe if you decreased fees then you would increase participation and increase total revenue.

Is the Performance Program really stagnant? Are the #'s of sires decreasing? Are the #'s of pups being enrolled decreasing?

What if they kept the fee structure the same but increased the "prestige" of the program through better promotion or advertising of the Performance Point Earners Lists? That might increase participation without increasing fees.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Jim do you not think if you gave more opertunities to win numbers would go up and put more money in the program ? Why I ask is if somthing is not done promptly I know several clubs down here that are going to close down lack of interest has killed us and numbers are so low we are just barley hanging on. Not being negative just giving the reality of it.


Somtimes I have to take money out of my pocket to put on the hunt.



Tar

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jim first off I have the highest respect for you and your opinion. Maybe your right just throw our hands in the air and quit !!!




Only one problem tar ain't never been a quitter don't know how to be one and feel right about it but just don't seem like we are given a choice.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, Mr Moore, that sounds just like a Democratic tax proposal... Increase taxes to increase benefits. Sounds great in theory but doesn't work in practice. When you increase fees you will decrease participation which will decrease revenue. Maybe if you decreased fees then you would increase participation and increase total revenue.

Is the Performance Program really stagnant? Are the #'s of sires decreasing? Are the #'s of pups being enrolled decreasing?

What if they kept the fee structure the same but increased the "prestige" of the program through better promotion or advertising of the Performance Point Earners Lists? That might increase participation without increasing fees.

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

"Survival of the fittest".... what a neat concept. But is that the American Way? Most Americans always look to their government to solve problems. They think that the government should protect the weaker members. Take from the strong and support the weak. That is the American Way. Letting only the hardest working or strongest survive is just not how we do it in America.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 592

Jim and Richard are spot on..

Make the program desirable, drop the number of hunts and help the titles once again regain the prestige they used to have.

At one time UKC Grand Nite Champion was a quite an accomplishment. Was a requirement for raising and marketing pups. Not so today in my opinion.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Ok then I got one more hunt in September and I am out of the hunt buisness. For the first time in years I am just going go to other people's hunts and mooch off of them and gripe if I don't like the way they run it kinda a relief call tar an under achiever from now on lol.


Tar over and out.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Mr Tar, I really don't know much about your situation but some things that you could do are.....
Just give up as you suggest. That would be the easy way.
Just keep on doing what you are doing. But apparently that isn't working.
Call UKC (the government) and ask them to bail you out. That is "The American Way".
Make a list of the hunters in your area that used to come to your hunts and ask them why they quit coming. Get them involved in "your" hunts. Find out if there are any younger or newer hunters in your area and get them involved. I am told that something called "social media" can be used to advertise your hunts. We used to have the local coffee place or breakfast spot. Try to figure out a way to make your hunts more user friendly and provide a friendlier atmosphere. Do a little under cover investigating. I have seen whole clubs have to fold because of one member. But all of this would require quite a bit of effort. Sometimes you have to ask yourself, "is it really worth it?"

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1933

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I would be satisfied if they just allowed Grand Nites to hunt with Nite Chs at the local level.

---

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1933

quote:

---

Originally posted by H.W. Moore
Suggestions to make a $100 point a $300 with very minor increases. Helping hunters who are entering the hunts and increasing interest for some who aren't. Mostly bringing attendance up and helping the local clubs out.
1.$10-20 increase to performance register one.
2.$10-20 increase to nominate a litter.
3.$20-30 fee to nominate a dam before breeding.
4.$25-50 increase in Performance sire fee.
5. Don't waste paper, envelopes, postage or man hours mailing checks under $50
6. Add a $1 fee per dog entered at a hunt to be placed directly in the performance fund.
Any 3 of these suggestions will more than double the fund, all will more than triple it.
This program has become stagnant and losing interest rapidly.

---

__________________

Midnight Thunder Black & Tans

GRNITECH CH PKC CH ‘PR’ Midnight Thunder Black Steel - (Ch GrNiteCh'PR' Northern Lights Doc x NITECH 'PR' Blues Band Gypsy Woman) - $630.66 PKC

GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Midnight Thunder Final Destiny - (GrNiteCh 'PR' First Class Super Stud x GrNiteCh GrCh 'PR' Midnight Thunder Black Desire) - - PKC $54.00


Up and Coming




Like us on Facebook
Midnight Thunder Black & Tans


Lovis Burns
910-874-4650

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I would be satisfied if they just allowed Grand Nites to hunt with Nite Chs at the local level.

---

They can. They call them mini slams. But for some reason most clubs don't want to have them.

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Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

How much have fees increased in the last decade?? Why wouldn't anyone want to pay slightly higher fees in order to receive much larger payouts? That's the question?

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

So let me get this right. To nominate a pup you have to send in a note? Its not on the registration? Or I'm I misunderstanding what Bruce said?

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Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, Mr Moore, that sounds just like a Democratic tax proposal... Increase taxes to increase benefits. Sounds great in theory but doesn't work in practice. When you increase fees you will decrease participation which will decrease revenue. Maybe if you decreased fees then you would increase participation and increase total revenue.

Is the Performance Program really stagnant? Are the #'s of sires decreasing? Are the #'s of pups being enrolled decreasing?

What if they kept the fee structure the same but increased the "prestige" of the program through better promotion or advertising of the Performance Point Earners Lists? That might increase participation without increasing fees.

---

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Richard gosh I am not good at sugar coating things the $$$ hunts are killing ukc you got hunts down here every night of the week where you get paid. By time the weekend gets here they are either broke or there is an added money hunt some where. Their only other option is to go to a ukc hunt were there might be six dogs and if you win nobody will ever know it but the guys you hunted with its not interesting to many hunters now days. When you got kc's giving away $40,000 and advertising their winners heck they even post their through the week winners. In my honest opinion you got to find a way to get numbers up it ain't that the hunters are not there they just ain't interested in hunting for titles anymore against two or three dogs and no publicity. Find a way to get numbers up so the clubs can put enough money in the bank to give prizes like we did back years ago more oppertunities to win and you will see it get interesting again.


Tar is 59 yrs old and still likes to walk past everybody with that big ole first place shiney trophy it's never lost its luster to me. But I guess that's all over.

Tar

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
They can. They call them mini slams. But for some reason most clubs don't want to have them.

---

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
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http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

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