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is there a bloodline or bloodlines that are known for their cold nose abilities? thank you

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Silver mist

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Hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2007
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I have found that most of the competition dogs are not cold nosed as this is not a quality that is wanted when trying to make as many trees as you can in a two hour hunt. If you want to find cold nosed blueticks, you are going to have to the big game or at least pleasure hunters. I also think that the dogs that hunt the dry ground conditions of the desert Southwest possess the really cold noses as this is where trailing conditions are most difficult.
Years ago, I thought the length of ear was directly related to how cold nosed a dog might be, but have found that this is not the case.
Good luck and Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: S.E.Ohio
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Call Jim Howes ,Mount Vernon,Ohio (740)397-5793 .He has a male dog that can take a track and run w/ it like he's tied to it . Other dogs may not even open for 15 min.or longer.He is a blazin fast track dog .This male is right out of GrNt B&D's Blue Spike.Good Luck

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: SE indiana
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Find a line that has the brains to use it. The ability to scent is directly related to intelligence. As a rule, approximately 70% of a dog's brain is dedicated to its sense of smell. Ability to discern the scent picture is dependent upon its intelligence and the olfactory sense ( length of nasal plane, interior make up of the nose) and a the way it transmits to the brain.

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Brains are of most importance for if you don't have them, you have nothing. I will continue to preach until you guys hunt the Desert Southwest, you will not know what difficult trailing conditions are. Not only is there no moisture, temperatures are high and humidity extremely low. Not only that, dogs are trailing across rock much of the time and very little ground cover to hold scent. Thank goodness I am on the eastern edge of the bad stuff but it can get really dry here as well.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Being from Wisconsin, one doesn't often give consideration to the challenges that others face. A coonhound from your area would probably think they had died and gone to heaven if they got a chance to hunt here in the upper midwest. I would guess that the toughest conditions here are the hills and perhaps water, but many hunters throughout the county face those difficulties. take care

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Water???? What the heck is that? One thing about hunting the desert, water never has been an obstacle. In fact, I carry a bucket of water on in my dog box so that I can water the dogs while hunting. If they get to thirsty, their sinuses dry up impairing their ability to smell.
You are right, my dogs would not handle the overload of scent that you have up in WI. I find that they do adapt after a few hunts and I guess that goes back to the brains which are so important.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Water???? What the heck is that? One thing about hunting the desert, water never has been an obstacle. In fact, I carry a bucket of water on in my dog box so that I can water the dogs while hunting. If they get to thirsty, their sinuses dry up impairing their ability to smell.
You are right, my dogs would not handle the overload of scent that you have up in WI. I find that they do adapt after a few hunts and I guess that goes back to the brains which are so important.
Adios,
Gary

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Would you share some of the names in your dogs pedigrees? I must confess, I'm an (almost) over the hill "wannabe". I hunted a bit with an uncle when I was young, and have gone a few times in the last couple of years. I have had the pleasure of hunting with Mr. Ken Risley who's dog Penny just won the Grand Masters Invitational a couple of weeks ago.

I enjoy doing a little research on various traits of different bloodlines. Some people study the stock market, I study coonhound traits.

Who knows, if I experience my third childhood I may make the jump and buy a couple of dogs.

take care..

Last edited by x145merlin on 09-23-2015 at 02:08 AM

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It sounds like you've spent considerable time trying to get a better understanding of what makes a good coonhound. Would you consider sharing the names of some of the dogs in your dogs pedigrees, and perhaps what you feel were/are some of the stronger traits in those dogs.

Thanks

Last edited by x145merlin on 09-23-2015 at 02:38 AM

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: SE indiana
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I have spent more time learning about how a dog follows a trail and possibly improving my ignorance about scent and scenting dogs. I am brand new to blueticks. I have spent 35 years coo hunting and big game hunting when I can. So, talking Bluetick heritage is not my strict suit.

Here is a copy of a post about cold nose dogs from the main board:

I served ten years with a patrol dog and our main job was to track bad guys. Part of the basic training was understanding how a dog's nose worked, how a target left a scent trail, how environmental factors affected the scent trail etc. in an effort to really understand this I really got into the subject.

The easy answer is that no two tracks are the same. Here are some basic things about scent and tracking:
- scent is produced from a target leaving cells that are discarded from the body. Those cells enter the environment and begin to change due to bacteria, humidity level, exposure to light, etc.
- cells are microscopic and are discarded from friction or transfer , breathing, waste. This is known as "scurf". The human body released millions per second. The feet have less effect on a scent trail than other parts of the body.
- when scurf leaves the body and enters the environment several things can happen:
-Since it is microscopic it can become suspended in the air during times of high humidity for several minutes. On calm days with No air movement it may remain suspended indefinitely. A slight current will cause it to settle.
-Once it hits the ground does it settle in the shade, direct sunlight, dry/ wet
ground? Is it on mown grass or in bacteria dense humus if the woods?
-cells/scurf are approximately 80% water. When they leave the body they begin to dehydrate. As they dehydrate scenting becomes more difficult.
-scurf can become rehydrated by dew or light rain making scenting easier. I have run tracks with a tracking dog that I know we're 20 hours old. Track laid at noon, ran at 0800 hrs the next day while the dew was still on.

I could go on and on but the books I posted already do that.
The main take away here is that there are no absolutes. We cannot simply say a track is hot or cold due to only a few known factors or my dog ran a turnout yesterday and he can't today.
I would be willing to say that every coon dog has a nose that is beyond our human comprehension. We try to classify it as cold or hot nose for our convenience. In fact it comes down to the style the dog uses the nose. My belief is, unless we compare a pug to a hound we as hunters would be unable to truly measure the scenting ability or our dogs. Some dogs prefer to run a "hotter track" but I believe they smell the same track as the "cold nosed" dog. They just don't want to mess with it.

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I appreciate the info....

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No problem Merlin. I hope I didn't get off topic. The reason I feel this relevant is because having this info has helped me have a better understanding of bounds and what is REALLY going on.
I have seen statements like
"He can run a cold track like a hot one" Really? How do you know it is a cold track? Because it is on the snow? What was the consistency of the snow. Was it slushy or powder? What was the temp and humidity? Did he start the track out on the wide open or was it low and heavily wooded? Over cast or direct sun? What time of day?

I don't put much stock in what people say about cold/hot nose. Most don't know what that is. It is just a way to sound like we know what we are talking about.

Is it essential to have this much knowledge? There have been people catching game for thousands of years without knowing details. It just helps me catch game, train dogs, and spot counterfeit dogs and breeders.

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Great information Chris. Without going way back, I can tell you that the dogs that I feel are very important in MY breeding program and that you will see many times in their 3-5 generation pedigrees are Smokey River JBS Chief, Upon's Blue Boy II and Clear River Diamond Jim. While I have heard that the Chief dog could not trail a fresh coon track across a mud hole, his offspring seem to have really good noses. Blue Boy II was primarily a bear dog but was known for his intelligence and the ability to produce it. He was also one of if not the best looking blue dog I have seen. Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim was a dog with excellent confirmation as well, perhaps not known as much for his nose but he was a master at winding and drifting a track. All of my dogs run with their head in the air just like a running walker when the track is good or jumped. All a lot of this dog's offspring tend to favor cats over coons which many coon hunters don't like. This dog was also very intelligent.
I train my dogs to work old tracks and that is why you rarely see me hunting after dark. I prefer to hunt mornings about daybreak when most of the tracks were made several hours older. These dogs have a tendency to want to really cut and slash when the scenting conditions are good and I want to teach them patience. I hunt my dogs on primarily coons as most of the bobcats died off here several years ago but hunt these same dogs on lions in West Texas, NM and AZ.
What I have found is hunting coons in the daylight is an excellent way to train the dogs on lions. The dogs learn to work old bad tracks and then when I get out West, the lion country holds no coons. I break all my dogs off of bear, fox, coyotes, deer and anything other than coons, cats and lions.
I have seen dogs with colder noses than mine but I don't recall catching any game because of it. In my opinion, a dog that tries to work a track that is so old that it is impossible to catch is wasting your time. The dog will usually open where the lion has scratched and will spend hours trying to find where the lion went after laying down the huge amount of scent.
As a youngster, I hunted with a running walker female that was supposed to be broke off coyotes. Every now and then she would start a coyote and if she did, we were going to catch that coyote. I don't recall her ever starting a coyote that we did not catch. How she knew which ones she could catch, I will never know, I think it goes back to the intelligence thing that is still most paramount.
Another thing I have found is that if your dogs are good enough to consistently catch bobcats, treeing coons is extremely easy in most all conditions.
And yes, I do study pedigrees more than the stock market.
Adios,
Gary

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I have always heard the same about Chief and Diamond Jim.

A smart dog will learn what he can catch that's for sure. If you only put the dog down in ideal conditions where they can find a track easily, they never reach their full potential.

Back to your question Merlin, I have heard a lot of talk about Mountain Music Blue. John Gilmore (I think is his name) from Ohio owns him and calls him Cache. He goes by "cabins"'on this board and has a stud dog page. Maybe a good place for you to look as well. I am going to contact him and go up and see what he has got. I think he is about three hours from me.

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Right you are Mr. Powell. We have a spring fed river that runs through Menard County as well as several spring fed creeks. Coons and other wildlife concentrate along these waterways and timber is much taller, especially pecan trees. Most coon hunters want to hunt these bottoms as it is one tree after another and the coons don't run. For this reason, I do not hunt these areas, I only hunt the hills and upland for it is more of a test of the dog. I would much rather hear a good race than a dog barking up a tree but what do I know, I am an old dinosaur.
Adios,
Gary

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I'd say you know what a track dog is. You are catching game in tough tough places.

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I've got a cold nose blue male that takes a 10-12 hr old track on bear he is double bullet bred

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Registered: Jun 2007
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That double bred Running Bullet goes back to the JBS Chief that is my dogs very strong. I think that a lot of nose in my dogs came from the Chief dog but then the Upson Blue Boy II dog had a lot of nose as well.
Adios,
Gary

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That double bred Running Bullet goes back to the JBS Chief that is my dogs very strong. I think that a lot of nose in my dogs came from the Chief dog but then the Upson Blue Boy II dog had a lot of nose as well.
Adios,
Gary

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How are Clear River Diamond Jim and Smokey River Diamond Jim related? I have seen both names just don't know the relationship.

Thanks.

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