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We look at all this papers and I think one thing important for everyone to know, if there is an answer. How many generations behind a dog really influences the hound.
Some say over 3 and there is little influence while others say more. Anyone really have an answer for this or is it a percentage thing. Like the first 3 generation have 75% influence and then it declines. We always talk about the throwback. Blue eyed dog. Chocolate walker. How about declaws. My last litter of 10 had 2 males with dewclaws. Funny thing is and not for that reason the two I like are the ones with the dewclaws.

My answer is after 3 there is a big decline in influence.
Sometimes I think the grand pa and grandma have the biggest influence on a pup. WC Carolina Casey has a lot better grand pups then he did pups.

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Good question, that I don't have an answer for.

When Lobo treed he stood at the base of the tree and shuffled back and forth with his front feet in time with each bark. I still see this today in some of the pups I raise. Not sure where it came from, but it's still here.

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I see traits from 4 or 5 generations back still showing up in the current dog. This is probably due to line breeding. From what I've noticed, a dog showing up 1 time in the 3rd generation doesn't have much influence, but a dog showing up 4 times in 5 generations seems to.

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I have seen traits from as far back as 8 generations pop up but you have to know what some of the ancestors traits are to know where it came from. Someone that is line breeding for certain traits can keep them visible in every generation for many many generations.

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Do these traits really come from 4 or 5 generations back? Or are they in the mother/father and passed on to the pups? This is kinda like the chicken or egg question. I mean, sure the traits might have started many generations back but they must be passed on through the mother/father. Can you take a male that doesn't have the traits and expect him to pass traits that his great grandfather had?

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This is how I look at ancestors in a pedigree. Take 2 glasses of colored water and pour them into one. Now they are mixed, then mix that one again, and mix it again, and again. That's 4 generations. All the DNA is there and mixed. So at anytime certain traits can be revealed. By out crossing other traits are seen, more dominant genes take over, or mix to hide. The traits are all still there just hidden.

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Mike I kind of look at it the same but I use grains of colored sand because I see each colored grain as having a characteristic and not two colored grains blending together to form a new color or characteristic. The more grains of one color you have and then reach in there blindfolded and pick one grain out. The better chance you have of choosing one color over another and having the characteristic that color stands for show up in your hound.

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Are all of the genes passed down or just 50% of the mother's and 50% of the father's? Just how does that work.
Does the glass only hold a certain amount so you actually lose 50% of each parents genes with each generation?

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One big misconception is that all traits are still there. Dogs can be bred to completely eliminate traits. Of course recessive genes that can lay hidden for generations lend to the notion that all traits or genes always exist.

Mathematically, Bruce, you are correct. The 3 first generations are the most important. Those traits that show up many generations later are due to combinations from both parents. In line breeding it is much more likely to have similar pairings that happened before. Hence, you think it is a throwback, but it is just from the pairing of the current parents.

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I doubt very many of us even know what traits the dogs beyond 3rd ever had. A good many probably don't know the traits of the grandparents or even parents.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Dogs can be bred to completely eliminate traits.

---

Now that is something that we don't hear very often. Everyone talks about breeding in traits but no one talks about breeding out traits. If you have a real nice dog that only has one bad trait, such as aggresiveness, you could theoretically breed that out?

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I respectfully disagree !! Stylish Queen is in my dogs several times she as I have been told is responsible for her offspring and generations after having dew claws I still have two or three pups per litter with dew claws she has been gone a long time !!

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Yadkin, I don't see your pedigrees to answer my question but if it started at queen and you get it in the next generation and then line breed those and then line bred those. Some had the dewclaws and they started at Queen but you have just put those genetics in the newer generations. Queen started it but it is coming from the others carrying it on. Not Queen.

If Queen was the only dog that had them for five generations then show back up and you haven't seen them in 5 years. You could say Queen influenced that litter. That is if the gene traced back to her.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 11-21-2016 at 05:56 PM

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Not saying it started with Queen but she is the one got blamed for it before I started with the Yadkin River dogs I chased the ozark preacher blood they had dew claws.

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yadkintar I too like to chase the ozark preacher line. I have heard it said that to get a preacher colored dog that either
the Sire of the Dame must be preacher colored. Meaning that even though said dog might have preacher blood running through
their veins if they are not preacher colored they cannot produce preacher color. If this is indeed true the question becomes can a sire or dame pass along anything that is not in their imediate likeness?

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My dogs still got preacher blood but tar rattler through a lot of color so who knows lol!!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Pup
yadkintar I too like to chase the ozark preacher line. I have heard it said that to get a preacher colored dog that either
the Sire of the Dame must be preacher colored. Meaning that even though said dog might have preacher blood running through
their veins if they are not preacher colored they cannot produce preacher color. If this is indeed true the question becomes can a sire or dame pass along anything that is not in their imediate likeness?

---

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It really depends on the genes and the mode of transmission. The simplest traits are ones that are controlled by a single pair of genes. The problem is many behaviors are a result multi-gene combinations. This is one of the other aspects of nature mudding the waters of dog breeding.

An example of a single pair of genes responsible for a trait is inverted eye lids. A breeder can through extensive records effectively remove that gene from his or her dogs. It won't be easy, and it will take a long time. The fact remains it can be done.

Here are the different modes of genetic transmission:

autosomal dominant, autosomal recessive, polygenic, sex-linked, incomplete dominance, simple recessive, simple dominant, and the most common undetermined.

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Last edited by Larry Atherton on 11-21-2016 at 07:37 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
My dogs still got preacher blood but tar rattler through a lot of color so who knows lol!!

---

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Yadkintar,

I had a grandson to Preacher. A local hunter named Chuck Majors owned I think Preacher's son Tanner. I had a Tanner pup. He was a coon hound, but he hated women. He would bite every women, but my wife. I learned later he was beat by a previous owners wife with a broom for barking. The funny part he never was bad about barking.

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I had one out of tanner and wicks ozark Polly I kept him till he died was not preacher colored open spotted with a half white face but could flat tree a coon I did not know much about hunting then he trained his self lol!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Yadkintar,

I had a grandson to Preacher. A local hunter named Chuck Majors owned I think Preacher's son Tanner. I had a Tanner pup. He was a coon hound, but he hated women. He would bite every women, but my wife. I learned later he was beat by a previous owners wife with a broom for barking. The funny part he never was bad about barking.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Pup
yadkintar I too like to chase the ozark preacher line. I have heard it said that to get a preacher colored dog that either
the Sire of the Dame must be preacher colored. Meaning that even though said dog might have preacher blood running through
their veins if they are not preacher colored they cannot produce preacher color. If this is indeed true the question becomes can a sire or dame pass along anything that is not in their imediate likeness?

---

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Okay, talking genes that are passed down. If you are talking about mouth and physical make up I would say possibly 3 generations. But for instance, the All Blue coon hound has been passed down for many generations and it only takes one parent to be all blue. You can breed two all blues and get a tan trim pup but you can't breed two tan trims and get an all blue pup although I have heard a few folks claim they have gotten an all blue pup from two tan trims, I have never seen one. I have had pups crop up in litters that had no business being there and don't know where they came from except from an ancestor back a ways. Mr. Dave Dean is probably one of the most effective breeders of coon hounds that had the same traits and it has taken him nearly 30 generations of line breeding to do that. BTW Bruce, I had the pleasure of hunting with a litter mate to WC Carolina Casey back in the early 70. He was owned by Mr. James Buckaloo of Bruceton Mills WV. His name was Gr Nt Ch Timber Jack and a real coon dog. Good thread.

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Jay Lush the father of genetics in animal breeding say's this:
For every generation that passes between the ancestor and the present, his influence is reduced by half.

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