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KevinP
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Registered: Dec 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 144

Score this

A,b,c are treed. A,b on one tree, c on tree 30 ft away.dog c tree runs into a and b tree. Coon is seen in dog a and b tree, about two ft above where dog c tree runs into it. Judge declared dogs split upon arrival,which being that far apart I can see why. But during shine time of course,is when the debate arose,when it was clear the trees was touching.let's hear some opinions.

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11-13-2016 07:02 AM

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rob thompson
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

I would have a hard time scoring them split in that situation

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11-13-2016 07:13 AM

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KevinP
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Registered: Dec 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 144

A,b was + c was circled. C tree was leafy. All handlers agreed with judge on arrival as to trees being split, so that's how it was scored.

Last edited by KevinP on 11-13-2016 at 07:21 AM

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11-13-2016 07:18 AM

JiM
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Posts: 7076

It has to be decided before shine time starts and once it is decided,, it should be considered as written in stone. In other words, no further discussion after shining starts.

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11-13-2016 02:02 PM

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harleydan1956
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30' apart. Never saw a judge declare split without looking up first. If branches touch, enough to support a coon"s weight, has to be 1 tree ,

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11-13-2016 02:05 PM

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Donnie Stevens
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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
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I think you'd have to look up to decide one tree or two

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11-13-2016 02:55 PM

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DFred
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 572

What is the correct procedure for the judge to determine if it's 1 tree or 2? Does the " searching tree before shine time " rule apply?

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11-13-2016 06:18 PM

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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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The correct procedure is to look up and make a decision based on the judges best judgment. And yes, the judge has a right to throw a light up and make that determination before shine time is started.

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11-13-2016 06:41 PM

groworg1
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
The correct procedure is to look up and make a decision based on the judges best judgment. And yes, the judge has a right to throw a light up and make that determination before shine time is started.

please quote where in the rules or advisor it say's its okay for a judge to shine tree or trees before shine time begins

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11-13-2016 07:05 PM

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rob thompson
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
please quote where in the rules or advisor it say's its okay for a judge to shine tree or trees before shine time begins

big difference in shining a tree to see if they touch and looking for a coon.

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11-13-2016 07:46 PM

Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

The judge should have done a better job there. It looks like he clearly made a mistake and wasn't trying to hurt anyone either way, but JIM is right. That needs to be made before shine time has started.

Now several years ago we had a topic where a judge minused a dog for babbling and then 2 seconds later the dog treed and had a coon. I think, but am not sure, but THINK that they said at that time, when the judge clearly made a mistake he could correct that mistake.

However, on that my memory isn't 100% so I would need someone from UKC to answer it to be sure.

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11-13-2016 07:53 PM

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harleydan1956
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 2605

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
The judge should have done a better job there. It looks like he clearly made a mistake and wasn't trying to hurt anyone either way, but JIM is right. That needs to be made before shine time has started.

Now several years ago we had a topic where a judge minused a dog for babbling and then 2 seconds later the dog treed and had a coon. I think, but am not sure, but THINK that they said at that time, when the judge clearly made a mistake he could correct that mistake.

However, on that my memory isn't 100% so I would need someone from UKC to answer it to be sure.

Yeah. Judge should have taken a quick look to see if branches touched before shine time started. Seems everyone agreed before tree was shined? Or it could have been voted on.

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11-13-2016 09:24 PM

JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

It isn't a voting situation unless someone questions the judges ruling.

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11-13-2016 10:43 PM

jimbob_walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2010
Location: jamestown,pa
Posts: 612

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
The correct procedure is to look up and make a decision based on the judges best judgment. And yes, the judge has a right to throw a light up and make that determination before shine time is started.

Jim, I know you are up on all the rules, but once again I had this exact conversation with former ukc hunt director. Not saying he is right by any means. But he said the judge makes the call wether or not they are one tree and he is NOT aloud to shine a light in the tree to determine that. Doesn't make any sense without seeing what is going on. And I was always under the understanding that for no reason can you shine a light in a tree before shine time has started. Say the judge is able to shine the tree and his dog is alone. He sees a coon 10 feet up his tree. Do you think he's going to make a honest call if it means winning the hunt. My ears are open, this is just they way I was told by a former hunt director

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11-14-2016 02:17 AM

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
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quote:
Originally posted by jimbob_walker
Jim, I know you are up on all the rules, but once again I had this exact conversation with former ukc hunt director. Not saying he is right by any means. But he said the judge makes the call wether or not they are one tree and he is NOT aloud to shine a light in the tree to determine that. Doesn't make any sense without seeing what is going on. And I was always under the understanding that for no reason can you shine a light in a tree before shine time has started. Say the judge is able to shine the tree and his dog is alone. He sees a coon 10 feet up his tree. Do you think he's going to make a honest call if it means winning the hunt. My ears are open, this is just they way I was told by a former hunt director

Jim is correct as to what Allen has told us. Remember a hunt director just keeps up with paper work. No qualification needed.

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11-14-2016 02:39 AM

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harleydan1956
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 2605

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
It isn't a voting situation unless someone questions the judges ruling.

That's all they have to do, question it..I've been through this with Allen. I said the same thing about voting. Was told any situation that the cast thought the hunting judge made a bad call, can be questioned and voted on. If no resolve, then back to the MOH.

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11-14-2016 02:58 AM

harleydan1956
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11-14-2016 03:03 AM

groworg1
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
please quote where in the rules or advisor it say's its okay for a judge to shine tree or trees before shine time begins

still haven't seen anything in writing to support its okay for a judge to throw his light up in trees to determine if split or not before shine time starts what if judge see's coon before shine time starts is it the same as seeing a coon after shine time ends gray areas discourage hunters from coming back bottom line !!!!

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11-14-2016 10:21 PM

Donnie Stevens
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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2768

Is there any other way to know if two trees touch above your head then to look ?

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11-14-2016 10:33 PM

groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1861

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Is there any other way to know if two trees touch above your head then to look ?

so every cast member should be able to throw there light up there to see if they agree with judge or not ?

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11-14-2016 10:43 PM

coonhunter1287
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Registered: Feb 2012
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I would think this would be a common sense issue. If you see the trees obviously run together and are one then score it as one. I don't feel that just because a judge says walking in they are split that it is set in stone and if you find that his call was incorrect that it could not be corrected. Let the best dog win and quit trying to utilize and bend the rules in order to keep someone from getting what they deserve.

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11-14-2016 10:54 PM

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harleydan1956
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 2605

quote:
Originally posted by coonhunter1287
I would think this would be a common sense issue. If you see the trees obviously run together and are one then score it as one. I don't feel that just because a judge says walking in they are split that it is set in stone and if you find that his call was incorrect that it could not be corrected. Let the best dog win and quit trying to utilize and bend the rules in order to keep someone from getting what they deserve.

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11-14-2016 11:03 PM

snaggles
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: south carolina
Posts: 578

I was in a situation going into a tree one night like this. I had not treed my dog when I hurd him treed because the five was up on the other guys tree well once we get in sight I saw mine was split an I treed mine. the judge run the five on mine y he was taking first two on his tree. then it was later discovered that they touched so he revoked my five an ordered me to handle my dog. well the coon was in a hole in my tree. they plus the dog that was treed originally an minus mine for being on a closed tree with a coon in it. its a tough situation. cause how many trees can the coon climb at the same time lol an a coon gonna go through a huge live oak to another huge live oak an down the base to a hole? not likely but the rules stated they touched so had to swallow the pill.

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11-15-2016 04:02 PM