Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

The reason I directed this question to the older ones is b/c, younger guys can't relate to the time frame, which is the essence of my question.


Do you think, using the "Top Reproducers List", as criteria, for breeding dogs has HELPED or HURT the quality of our hounds? Do we hunt a better quality of hound today, than we did years ago, before titles and records became the standard?
I'm not asking sarcastically, but sincerely.

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 903

Mr. Edwards, I don't think the breeders in the blue breed are as concerned about numbers as much as they are about bloodlines so I don't see where the reproducers list has changed the breed for better or worse.
I think there's far more dogs that make treedogs and will tree a coon now than 40 or 50 years ago.
I think it's a higher percentage of blue dogs that can tree coon now that's mediocre at best and that don't have the genetics to finish into a top hound.

Thirty years or longer ago people knew what dogs was throwing the best pups and what lines had stood the test of time, now there's hundreds of stud dogs that's advertised that's mediocre on websites like this, people should hunt with the dogs before breeding.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 536

I've hunted for 40 years and heck yes if you breed to top reproducer there is a good chance they will reproduce and know you got the inter net to cross reference with other KC's and let's not for get the performance points list you can see what dogs that are winning

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

but i been hunting before the internet and such.
what i see, earlier starting,more dogs that can tree coon, not enough sorry dogs culled,
jmo it's best to breed for traits.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2013
Location:
Posts: 536

quote:

---

Originally posted by pamjohnson
but i been hunting before the internet and such.
what i see, earlier starting,more dogs that can tree coon, not enough sorry dogs culled,
jmo it's best to breed for traits.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

I can remember in the early days, people wanted to breed to dogs that were better than theirs. If you had a good female, and found something better, you bred to it. It didn't have to be registered, and didn't have to be the same breed. Out crosses were made on different breeds producing some consistent coon dogs. One thing I've noticed is, back in the late 60's early 70's, the thought of walking to a slick tree never crossed my mind. If a dog treed, it would be a den, big pine, or you would see a coon. Something else that is true to this area is, back then you would make one turn out after the other without getting a bark. A lot of people trapped, and hunted back then, and there were not that many coons, at least in our area. That was before tracking and shocking collars, yet it was amazing that there were dogs that would not open on anything but a coon. Back then the credentials were coon hides on the barn, not titles. Today, there's a LOT more coon, and with all of the training aids, you would think it would be easier to train, and produce a top hound. Yet, when you try to get a "Top Hound" and I mean, a sure enough top dog, they are as scarce as hen's teeth. I don't know...I really don't, because the conditions have changed, yet that outstanding hound is still hard to find. I don't have the answers. Sometimes I'm not sure of the questions!!!!

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

truly top hounds are hard to find. i feel they was hard to find back in the day as well. that is why i feel a real good one is and should be worth plenty of money.
i started out with grade dogs most were good at 1 or 2 things but couldn't put it all together so we pack hunted them.
next i got reg walkers and wow they could put it all together but did lack accuracy. and yes that was back in the day.
today i have blue dogs and i am happy with them but always breeding,training the next one!
i still have drops that i don't get a bark depending on which dog i hunt and the accuracy depends on the dog as well. i also feel accuracy can have much to do with training as breeding. rest assured though if accuracy isn't breed in you can't train it in.
i think we do expect more from our hounds today then ever before. after all back in the day how often did we turn a single dog loose alone?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

quote:

---

Originally posted by pamjohnson
truly top hounds are hard to find. i feel they was hard to find back in the day as well. that is why i feel a real good one is and should be worth plenty of money.
i started out with grade dogs most were good at 1 or 2 things but couldn't put it all together so we pack hunted them.
next i got reg walkers and wow they could put it all together but did lack accuracy. and yes that was back in the day.
today i have blue dogs and i am happy with them but always breeding,training the next one!
i still have drops that i don't get a bark depending on which dog i hunt and the accuracy depends on the dog as well. i also feel accuracy can have much to do with training as breeding. rest assured though if accuracy isn't breed in you can't train it in.
i think we do expect more from our hounds today then ever before. after all back in the day how often did we turn a single dog loose alone?

---

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

I totally agree with what you said about the price of an outstanding hound. They are worth a lot of money.....when you can even find one for sale!!!! The problem is, so many hunters don't know what a really outstanding dog is, so if they have one that trees a coon, they ask outstanding prices for a mediocre dog.

One thing that blows my mind(off the subject) is the prices for these old dogs. When a dog reaches a certain age it enters into an "If'y" time period. It doesn't matter what they have been or done when they have two legs in the grave. They may look and act like they are five, but they're not. Anyhow, that's a different thread.

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1100

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craig Edwards
The reason I directed this question to the older ones is b/c, younger guys can't relate to the time frame, which is the essence of my question.


Do you think, using the "Top Reproducers List", as criteria, for breeding dogs has HELPED or HURT the quality of our hounds? Do we hunt a better quality of hound today, than we did years ago, before titles and records became the standard?
I'm not asking sarcastically, but sincerely.

---

__________________
Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

JAMES RIELY TOLD ME SAIL PUT THE TREEING HIS HOUNDS

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

JAMES RIELY TOLD ME SAIL PUT THE TREEING HIS HOUNDS

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

JAMES RIELY TOLD ME SAIL PUT THE TREEING HIS HOUNDS

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

The hounds I hunt today aren't as trashy. You had to get serious about trash breaking the hounds 40 years ago. Many of the hounds today are primarily naturally straight. We may have lost some vigor and desire to catch game.

__________________
Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)


The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

Trash not a big problem, more pups in litters becoming coon dogs,even if they are only just decent coon dogs, the special ones are still few.

__________________
Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged