Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 1495

Is there anyone out there that has dogs that they have bred and hunted bobcats with for a couple generations. I have hunted coon for over 30 years and in the last 5 years here in Pa we have had a major increase in our bobcat population.Myself and quite a few buddies are looking to get serious about chasing cats in the daytime. There are guys having some good success here using beagles and hunting the cats like rabbits and shooting them as they circle.Im looking to have dogs that will catch or tree these cats.I like the sounds of those Ray and Cameron dogs.I have also heard of someone in Michigan using Rock River bred walkers with good success.I am open to any breed or mix of hound.I just see a good opportunity to take advantage of here in the mountains of central Pa.I love training pups and would just as soon have a pup.I believe in good breeding and just want to start with the best blood I can.Any help I can get from you guys would be much appreciated. My number be is (717)250-7913.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

What's wrong with the dogs you have?

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Powers Michigan
Posts: 121

I have a litter due in a few weeks that are bred to be real cat dogs. The first 6 are spoken for but there may be a couple xtras. They are Ray, Briar Creek, Oneys and Swamp Rooster. They will make real bear dogs too.

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Wild Spirit Big Game Hounds
English Big Game, is the only language we speak in our country!!
Dan and Jonathan Kirschner
906-250-0089
Upper MI

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 1495

Nothing wrong with mine for coonhunting Kevin..I'm sure there is someone out there that is in to cat hunting and breeding cat dogs just like I am nuts about coondogs.My thinking is why go at it with a coondog when someone else has cat bred dogs.Maybe I'm thinking wrong here but I'm thinking there is no way a dog bred to hunt coon is going to excel at cat hunting like a cat bred dog. Isn't a good cat dog able to push a couple hour old track fast enough to jump it fairly quick and then burn it to a tree.I really don't know I've never hunted with a cat dog ,good or bad one.When I've turned my coondogs loose on cat tracks in the snow it usually ended up the same way,steady push half silent ,then a jump with a short hot smoking track into the rocks on the top of the mountain .Seems like they tree better at night but won't stay in the tree till you get there.when you get close they jump out and it's off to the races again.Nobody I've talked to in the state can tree them consistantly.I really don't like listening to a cat chase at night when I'm trying to coon hunt either,so I just want a well bred pup to have for just cats.I'll break it off of everything except cat.The most successful cat hunters here in Pa are shooting the cat on the ground ahead of the dogs.Its like my dogs are to fast to do that but not pushing hard enough to tree tthem.Kirschner ,I see you are in Michigan,that is kind of like here with the thick cover ,do your dogs tree the cats ,catch and bay them up on the ground consistently or am I not understanding cat hunting?
Kevin , I've heard your dogs do a good job out there.I just wonder if they would do as good here.They might, I don't know.I think an eastern cat dog is going to be different than a western cat dog.

Last edited by Wade Kuhns on 01-29-2016 at 04:14 AM

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Powers Michigan
Posts: 121

Last season every cat we caught treed, some years we catch quite a few on the ground. This year we have had horrible conditions so far but its starting to change. The snow depth and type seems to make the biggest difference. Conditions are everything in cat hunting. Thick cover is certainly harder for dogs to locate in. Up here if u tried to run hot nosed coon dogs on cats you would have a long tough winter. Another big problem to watch for is good feet, a dog on the ground for 10-12 hours need tough feet in snow. I think old John Ray must have bred a mule into these dogs cause I haven't seen one yet with bad feet, and mine have been on icey crusty snow for almost a month now.

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Wild Spirit Big Game Hounds
English Big Game, is the only language we speak in our country!!
Dan and Jonathan Kirschner
906-250-0089
Upper MI

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Northeast P.A
Posts: 104

Im from northeast PA Ive been running cats for a while and most of the cats wont tree. Most of the cats will bay or go to a hole. Conditions are the key, Last year we had good snow we killed 4 cats we treed 3 of them the other we bayed, this year we have no snow we have ran about ten cats all except one ran into a hole the one that didn't got shot before he got to the hole. As to you treeing the cats at night I believe it is because most cats have full bellies and don't feel like running I also tree more at night than the day, I use the same hounds. I hunt coon bred dogs on cats the only problem I am having is the independence being bred into the hounds, I run a mix of clover and skuna river hounds. It takes a very special dog to be able to start a track and run it to a tree, most tracks you will find are at least 5 hours old or older and it takes a even better dog to locate tree with a cat Ive watched plenty tree and the cats usually don't touch the first six feet of the tree. Many cat hunters use a running dog X tree dog cross.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location:
Posts: 96

wade you have what you need right in your back yard, i hunt my hounds on cat and have had good luck. give me a call and we'll go some time.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

Wade, that may have come out wrong lol. What I mean is a top hound is a top hound regardless. You have some good ones I hear. Cats go in rocks all the time if they can no matter what dogs you run. East, west, north, and south. Bobcats are about the hardest critter to catch consistantly in my opinion. Ideally a dog needs to be able to work a cold track and then pick it's head up and run without making a bunch of mistakes. Most of my pups go to guys that hunt cats out west. I did sell an 8 year old dog to a guy in WI and he used her to start some pups and then sold her to another guy in WI. She had no problem catching and treeing cats there. I sold her as a lion dog and told the guy she wasn't a great bobcat dog. She did good over there on bobcats though. I sold a pup to a guy in Ontario that comes to the U.S. hunting bobcats. I think the dog does a decent job on them. He is a bear dog but runs cats too. Cats are different to run than coons and it takes a dog a few tracks tofigure it out. A true bobcat dog is the most balanced dog there is. To answer your last question I, m fair certain these dogs would do better out there. A lot easier country (much less rugged), better scenting conditions (more humidity), a lot more roads to freshen tracks up and cut down on the miles walked to a tree, thick brush (body scent hangs on brush leaving more scent to follow), less melting (no chinook winds), no 60+ mile an hour winds to fill tracks in or blow the snow and scent completely away, and I might be wrong here but guessing no 50 - 100+ foot cliffs for cats to ledge out on and dogs to get hung up in or fall off and die. The biggest difference in cat dogs and competition dogs is cat hunters generally don't have a problem culling. When a guy walks into a bunch of slick trees or "circle" trees or listens to a dog boo-hoo all around (babble) and them me too the tree or a dog backtracks to a den or quits a track and goes looking for another and that type of stuff the dog has a very short career. Cat hunting it only counts if you can take a picture of the cat, put the cat hide on a stretcher, or have an honest end in a rockpile, hole, etc. A lot of the dogs I've hunted with and heard about around the country wouldn't live long on the end of my leash as a coon dog, let alone a bobcat dog. I've heard yours are good dogs. I think they would do just fine with some repetition and time.

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 1495

Well thanks for the responses guys.After talking to guys alot lately about running these bobcats I'm finding out I just need to keep at it and keep giving the dogs the opportunity.I was under the impression that cat hunters had dogs tthat if they opened on a track they either treed it or caught it at least 90% of the time . I'm finding a cat dog like that would be worth a small fortune.I guess I have to just put more time in at this game till me and the dogs get it figured out. I still want to train one for just cats and I'm going to do that.I've been trying to get a hold of Paul Laney in Maine.Sure sounds like he has a good thing going up there with his plotts.Kevin you don't have to worry about hurting my feelings,haha I don't get all butt hurt .These cats have me frustrated,I like that though,I'm glad we have them around.

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location:
Posts: 2941

Hmmm...interesting info. Chuck put Ruby on cats when she was just over a yr old. He said she'd run them almost out of hearing distance and then come back. We thought maybe they were going in holes because earlier in the fall, she didn't stay at a hole when a coon went down it. She met us on the way out and we asked where the coon was and she went down to a hole and barked a few times so we got her and left. Later my friend called a friend called and said her husband was archery hunting and saw. the coon and Ruby run by and that the coon did go down a hole. Chuck talked to a few bobcat hunters later and they told him it was almost useless for one guy with one dog to hunt them so we're just staying with a coon dog. How many pups do u want Wade?

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

Rex Ridge, don't believe everything you hear. One good dog will catch more cats by itself than a pack of average dogs will catch.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Powers Michigan
Posts: 121

You will certainly catch more with one or two dogs. The more dogs, the more they gett in each others way, especially in less than ideal conditions. You are likely going to get more cats caught on the ground than treed when there is a larger number of dogs running. Thats just my opinion from my experiences.

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Wild Spirit Big Game Hounds
English Big Game, is the only language we speak in our country!!
Dan and Jonathan Kirschner
906-250-0089
Upper MI

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location:
Posts: 2941

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin Jackson
Rex Ridge, don't believe everything you hear. One good dog will catch more cats by itself than a pack of average dogs will catch.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

Do whatever makes you happy. More dogs and more people isn't my style.

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 19

I don't know of many people in PA that have a bonafide bobcat dog. Most are dogs that hunt other game and are taken out during our short season. They kill one or two cats infront of them and waaa laaa. It's a bobcat dog.

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Registered: Nov 2015
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Posts: 2941

quote:

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Originally posted by mtncurhunter
I don't know of many people in PA that have a bonafide bobcat dog. Most are dogs that hunt other game and are taken out during our short season. They kill one or two cats infront of them and waaa laaa. It's a bobcat dog.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location:
Posts: 19

I agree and there is nothing wrong with that. Just saying that most "PA bobcat dogs" are coon dogs that have a few bobcats under their belt.

But then I guess who am I to say. Just how many bobcats does a dog have to catch to be considered a bobcat dog? Guess its an opinion.

Last edited by mtncurhunter on 02-01-2016 at 11:47 PM

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 9

I own PA Bobcat Dogs. Mine run nothing else

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 1495

Snowshoerun,what do you have and how do you do it?

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Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by mtncurhunter
I agree and there is nothing wrong with that. Just saying that most "PA bobcat dogs" are coon dogs that have a few bobcats under their belt.

But then I guess who am I to say. Just how many bobcats does a dog have to catch to be considered a bobcat dog? Guess its an opinion.

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 9

quote:

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Originally posted by Wade Kuhns
Snowshoerun,what do you have and how do you do it?

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 34

Snowshoerun, do your dogs catch bobcats?

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 9

Yes. Have caught them on ground and treed them. However as anyone that runs cats knows conditions are a huge factor on catching cats. Snow depth being number one.

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Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Pa
Posts: 1495

Snowshoe ,how many have you killed over your dogs and how long have you been doing it? You're not that far from me.

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Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Southern Vermont
Posts: 311

My friend has killed 2 so far this winter with his redbones and there two of the best cat dogs Ive seen one is yellow river bred and the other is T-top. My father was a guide in ME he ran and trained cat and bear hounds for a living so Ive seen alot of cat dogs.From what Ive seen a tighter mouth track dog will tree more cats and fast hounds catch and bay them or drive them in circles like rabbits. We dont have alot of cats its hard finding fresh tracks here. I dont know what your temps are like but dogs that run well on real dry ground seem to be able to run cats better on snow in cold conditions than other types do.

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Hounds I own
PR LT Redcoat Wait Till Sundown(Dual Grand T-Top Dark Timber Moose X Longtrail Redcoat Reaper)

PR Long Trail Redcoat Lucky Walter (Dual GR T-Top Dark Timber Moose xSML Dark Timber Bobbie Ann) co owner Ron Wolters


PR Long Trail Redcoat Reaper(GRCHPR Hershs Huntin Red 90/4 Life Gun HTX X CH PR Stone&Redcoat DBL Moon Kate II) co owner Ron Wolters

Hounds Im hunting
PR Soggy Bottom Dark Timber Addy : owners Buck Ratliff/Mike Laster

NTCH GRCH Dark Timber Red Angus : owners Buck Ratliff and Myself

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