Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Huntington wv
Posts: 11
How would you score this
3 dog cast dog A strikes & trees dogs B&C are shut out on strike & dogs B&C come into tree after 5 min are up. Handlers of dog B&C strike and tree there dogs when they get to dogs A tree but 5 min is up. When cast gets to within 50 yards of tree dog A clearly barks on ground 4 or 5 barks about 20 yards behind tree then comes back to tree. I was handling dog A & I was judge. I minused dog A strike & tree 225- . Dog B struck& treed for 75& 75 dog C for 50 &50. I pulsed dog B strike 75 & moved his tree to 125 for 200+ and dog C strike50& tree 75 for 125+. I minused my dog dog A 125 for barking on ground then she came back to tree where coon was seen 100-.
Your scores are correct,you just got there wrong.Once dog A's 5 minutes were up on his tree,dogs B and C had to take 125 and 75 when they treed in.By rule,once a tree is dead,any dog called treed is an automatic split tree call and as soon as dog a barked off B and C's points became good.
Ok lets try this, Dog A is struck for 100 and treed for 125. Dog A tree is dead, then dogs B and C were struck and treed. So Dog B is struck for 75 (shut out) and Treed which he goes in for 125 as a split tree because he treed after the five. Dog C is struck for 50 (shut out) and treed after dog A tree is dead but while dog B tree is running so he goes in for 75. Dog A was then seen off his tree so he gets -125, then goes back to tree( now most the time you need to know rather the judge was already at the tree when dog A goes back or if dog A was back at the tree before the Judge). Now this is how I would score it and many will disagree and I would like Allen or Cory to weigh in on this. Since dog A was seen Off his tree and -125 and dog B & C should have been taking as a split tree but were in fact with dog A. Dog B takes -125 dog C takes -75 as they left there split tree( on paper because they were never really split). So this makes the tree open and dogs should have been re-treed. Which would mean dogs B and C would now get there strike points because they are no longer shut out. It would now depend on the order dogs were re-treed. A coon was seen so all dogs would then be plus strike and tree.
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quote:Originally posted by River Birch Run Ok lets try this, Dog A is struck for 100 and treed for 125. Dog A tree is dead, then dogs B and C were struck and treed. So Dog B is struck for 75 (shut out) and Treed which he goes in for 125 as a split tree because he treed after the five. Dog C is struck for 50 (shut out) and treed after dog A tree is dead but while dog B tree is running so he goes in for 75. Dog A was then seen off his tree so he gets -125, then goes back to tree( now most the time you need to know rather the judge was already at the tree when dog A goes back or if dog A was back at the tree before the Judge). Now this is how I would score it and many will disagree and I would like Allen or Cory to weigh in on this. Since dog A was seen Off his tree and -125 and dog B & C should have been taking as a split tree but were in fact with dog A. Dog B takes -125 dog C takes -75 as they left there split tree( on paper because they were never really split). So this makes the tree open and dogs should have been re-treed. Which would mean dogs B and C would now get there strike points because they are no longer shut out. It would now depend on the order dogs were re-treed. A coon was seen so all dogs would then be plus strike and tree.
Are you saying to score a tree that has already been scored? If the tree had been scored then it is dead and cannot be re-treed on.
Side note, when dogs are treed they always stay in the order they are treed unless you walk in and dogs are split. Exsample Dog A is treed for 125 B for 75 C for 50 and D for 25. When arriving at the tree dogs A and B are together and dogs C and D are together but split form A and B. Dog A stays at 125 Dog B stays at 75 Dog C moves up to 125 and dog D moves up to 75. No dog can be moved up on a tree once it is treed behind another dog unless it is split.
Handlers try this all the time say Dog A struck for 100 and treed for 125 and Dog B struck for 75 and treed for 75. The tree is dead and dog A left before judge arrives and is minus 125 then comes back to tree after the judge. A coon is seen. Handler of dog B will try to move his dog up to 125, then move dog A to next available tree at 75. Then minus dog A 75 tree and 100 strike. Giving dog A 300 minus. And dog B 200 plus. This is wrong Dog B should not move up.
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quote:Originally posted by DFred Are you saying to score a tree that has already been scored? If the tree had been scored then it is dead and cannot be re-treed on.
The tree should have never been scored there was not a dog treed on that tree because dog A had taken minus for being off the tree. Dogs B and C were treed after dog A tree was dead so they should have been down as a split tree and minus. This leaves the tree open and should have never been shined because there was no dogs holding a tree. As soon as dog A was minus the tree was open he was the only dog holding a tree because you can't tree a dog on the same tree after the five min.
(l) Any dogs declared treed after five minutes
expires and tree is closed; call will be accepted as
a split tree. If dog is on closed tree when judge
arrives, strike and tree points are scored as if it
had left a split tree and moved to closed tree.
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Last edited by River Birch Run on 05-02-2015 at 03:44 PM
Dogs B and C were holding a tree, that was shined, and had a coon. It was scored as if Dog A left it's tree and came to them. The question is was it actually one tree or split trees. Let's wait for that answer. Otherwise we are just speculating and adding to the confusion.
Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Lawrence, michigan
Posts: 138
score as closed tree
fellas this is crazy but all dogs get minus here. dog a will recieve 225-. dog b 125 minus and dog c 75 minus for this reasoning. we all know dog a of course recieves 225-. now dog b and c were treed after the 5 on a closed tree. that means judge takes call as a split for 125 and 75. they were shut out on strike points. since same tree which was closed and coon seen dogs recieve minus tree points. since shut out on strike, strike points to be deleted. this will be in accordance with rule 4L and 5h and 3e.
Last edited by southern stuck on 05-02-2015 at 04:32 PM
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395
Thats a tough one. One big mess and I could see it happening.. My question is what's considered judge arriving at the tree. Is it when you can see it? That could be 100 yards or more in winter.
quote:Originally posted by GA DAWG Thats a tough one. One big mess and I could see it happening.. My question is what's considered judge arriving at the tree. Is it when you can see it? That could be 100 yards or more in winter.
My opinion is if the judge can determine, visually, what is happening at the tree then said judge has "arrived" .
quote:Originally posted by va.b&t do you minus dog a's track points for leaving the tree? I thought the dog had to tree on a slick tree to get minus on strike and tree
In the original post Dog A was minused on strike points for rule 4a "When a dog quits a trail that is being worked and comes in." because her trail ended at her tree, and the other dogs were awarded plus points.
Registered: Jan 2009
Location: berkeley springs w va
Posts: 448
if they were on same tree as dog a. then b and c would have strike with line under them . an both woulod have 125 minus for treeing on closed tree. an strike would b deleted for striking after a dog was treed.. if they were infact on seperate trees. then he did the right thing
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quote:Originally posted by River Birch Run Ok lets try this, Dog A is struck for 100 and treed for 125. Dog A tree is dead, then dogs B and C were struck and treed. So Dog B is struck for 75 (shut out) and Treed which he goes in for 125 as a split tree because he treed after the five. Dog C is struck for 50 (shut out) and treed after dog A tree is dead but while dog B tree is running so he goes in for 75. Dog A was then seen off his tree so he gets -125, then goes back to tree( now most the time you need to know rather the judge was already at the tree when dog A goes back or if dog A was back at the tree before the Judge). Now this is how I would score it and many will disagree and I would like Allen or Cory to weigh in on this. Since dog A was seen Off his tree and -125 and dog B & C should have been taking as a split tree but were in fact with dog A. Dog B takes -125 dog C takes -75 as they left there split tree( on paper because they were never really split). So this makes the tree open and dogs should have been re-treed. Which would mean dogs B and C would now get there strike points because they are no longer shut out. It would now depend on the order dogs were re-treed. A coon was seen so all dogs would then be plus strike and tree.
This is the correct way to handle it. Since it wase't handled this way dog A should have rereceived 225- dog B -125 for being declared treed on closed tree delete strike cause he was shut out. But at dog A's tree. Dog C -75 for being declared treed with dog B and delete strike because he was shut out.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by River Birch Run Ok lets try this, Dog A is struck for 100 and treed for 125. Dog A tree is dead, then dogs B and C were struck and treed. So Dog B is struck for 75 (shut out) and Treed which he goes in for 125 as a split tree because he treed after the five. Dog C is struck for 50 (shut out) and treed after dog A tree is dead but while dog B tree is running so he goes in for 75. Dog A was then seen off his tree so he gets -125, then goes back to tree( now most the time you need to know rather the judge was already at the tree when dog A goes back or if dog A was back at the tree before the Judge). Now this is how I would score it and many will disagree and I would like Allen or Cory to weigh in on this. Since dog A was seen Off his tree and -125 and dog B & C should have been taking as a split tree but were in fact with dog A. Dog B takes -125 dog C takes -75 as they left there split tree( on paper because they were never really split). So this makes the tree open and dogs should have been re-treed. Which would mean dogs B and C would now get there strike points because they are no longer shut out. It would now depend on the order dogs were re-treed. A coon was seen so all dogs would then be plus strike and tree. [/. I would minus A -225 , now to me the judge " did not see what tree A was on " just he's on the ground at first sight . Then B gets his 125 for treeing after a closed tree & C for 75 . So their strikes they would get too cause who knows A could have left his tree to come to theirs . So to me I would minus A -225 , B + 200 , C +125 Again they were never seen on A tree . Dog A was first seen on the ground so who knows exactly where he's treed .
Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701
To minus B and C for treeing after the 5 they have to be found treed with A. They were not and sense the judge did not determine that they were treed on the same tree as A then they are plussed.
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The way I understand it they were on the same tree as a.but he is saying dog a made some barks off the tree then came back to it with the the other dogs.
Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005
quote:Originally posted by joey To minus B and C for treeing after the 5 they have to be found treed with A. They were not and sense the judge did not determine that they were treed on the same tree as A then they are plussed.
Bingo....... Not enough information in the original post.... At 50 yards how does a judge determin that B and C were on the tree that A left. A might have left a nearby tree to go to B and C, Sounds like the scores ended up right but when B and C were treed after the 5 they should have gone right on the card for 125 and 75 respectivly.
When A opened off the tree and took strike minus B and C got lucky. Lots of poor handling in this cast.
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Last edited by john Duemmer on 05-03-2015 at 12:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by GA DAWG Thats a tough one. One big mess and I could see it happening.. My question is what's considered judge arriving at the tree. Is it when you can see it? That could be 100 yards or more in winter.
When judge says "handlem boys", that's when judge arrives.
05-02-2015 12:10 PM
