Registered: Sep 2014
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As a judge. Please make all calls. If someone is not satisfied with your call or decision then at that time they can ask for a cast vote. Otherwise what ever the judge called or ruled will be suffice. I dont know how many times I been in a UKC cast when the judge doesnt even make a call and ask me how I vote. How can I vote when the judge has never made a call to determine if there will be a question to vote on. Thanks for taking note.

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Registered: Mar 2008
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Good advise, except the scoring of trees and calling timeout should always be a cast vote.

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Wrong Judge makes all calls.

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How can you vote on something when a question has not been called? Where in the rules do you see this?

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

I think Mr. Duemmer is referring to the so called "majority rules" the scoring of trees and the calling time outs. Everything else is the judges call. I agree, a lot of judges are not quite doing their job. It seems like every time I enter a hunt other members of the cast suggest we break rules and when I ask them about it they all always act like they were clueless that it was not right. It is apparent that many handlers routinely break or don't follow the rules up to the point they will even try it with some one they don't know.

Edit: just last week a poster on here wrote about his cast "voting" or agreeing to call their dogs and burn up the rest of the hunt time leading them to the truck...the way it read the one dog got his first place win!!!

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Mostly, all the judge is there to do is write down the scores and keep track of time. Applying the right rule to the situation, and making calls is a small (but important) part of it. A "Cast Vote" is usually how things get decided.

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Please tell me in rules where you vote on a call that has not been made? In example scoring of tree. Judge calls decision to minus tree. If you disagree then you can ask for a vote.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
Mostly, all the judge is there to do is write down the scores and keep track of time. Applying the right rule to the situation, and making calls is a small (but important) part of it. A "Cast Vote" is usually how things get decided.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
Mostly, all the judge is there to do is write down the scores and keep track of time. Applying the right rule to the situation, and making calls is a small (but important) part of it. A "Cast Vote" is usually how things get decided.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
Please tell me in rules where you vote on a call that has not been made? In example scoring of tree. Judge calls decision to minus tree. If you disagree then you can ask for a vote.

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Last edited by msinc on 04-13-2015 at 01:39 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
I Agree! I'll use myself as an example. I personally think I'm a pore judge and don't ever TRY to get the card in my hand but sometimes clubs are short on capable judges so when asked to, I do it to help carry the load. I'm not always sure how a call should go so if all the guys in a cast seem like fair players I look for input before making a possibly contraversial call. Would you really want a guy like myself throwing his weight around just because he's carrying the pencil?

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Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
Please tell me in rules where you vote on a call that has not been made? In example scoring of tree. Judge calls decision to minus tree. If you disagree then you can ask for a vote.

---

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Registered: May 2010
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Very good advice here !!! Another good practice is when arriving at the tree tell the # of dogs to be handled . Seen a guy go about 40 yds to get his dog to bring it back to the tree cause the judge said " handle your dog " . Lol

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Registered: May 2008
Location: lenoir nc
Posts: 307

You know I'm just getting started at this and I'm hunting a 9 year old dog trying to get a couple young kids to pick up better habits. Winning or loosing doesn't matter to me but the lessons learned are important... The "judge" should be in charge and make the calls as fair and honestly as possible per the honesty and integrity part of the rules. Having said that I'm trying to get the kids to realize that all throughout life there will always be someone in charge. Alot of hunting judges and handlers are all about the win and getting a dog titled and honesty and integrity are shunned. They don't respect the judge and want to argue about every call they make! Now where is the integrity in that? It ruins the hunt for the cast and burns up hunting time they could be getting plus points. Example got burned Saturday night by a crooked dog handler who had a dog out of pocket. We scored 2 trees. The handler tries to call judges dog treed. There was 2 dogs there,m mine and the judge's. Judge warns handler about calling someone else dog. We get to tree before it closes judge make a noise and handler says your scratchedfor calling at coon. Now we go to dog 3 split he had off game treed. He minus. Other dog not barking no where. Handler says I hear him, judge ask cast do you hear dog cast answer no. A house dog is barking handler says that's his dog judge says do ya hear a dog cast answer yes. We knew it house dog but we had to cast our dogs to a house dog. I guess what I'm learned from this is listen close to the question a pissed scratched judge ask and answer his question with more smarts. As my old dad says ya gotta be smarter than what you work with. You'd think some of the guys would want to help new people getting started and teach them some of the rules to make it fun for all but not all have an ounce of dignity or integrity!

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Registered: Sep 2014
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Well I did my own homework. On page 63,64 of our rule book it explains it. Seems like the judge should make all calls even the scoring of tree. I stand corrected humbly. If the judge can make the call of decision to say if it's coon or off game then stands to reason he should make call of the scoring of tree seems very contradictory!

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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Lotta wrong answers on this one.
The judge makes every call EXCEPT these three.
1 Scoring trees.
2 Calling timeout.
3 Deciding whether a dog has returned to a previously scored tree.
Those three are always a cast vote decision. Nobody has to ask for a vote because it is automatically a vote. The rules specifically state all cast members must vote in those three situations. The judge can vote first or last or anywhere in between, it don't matter.
Everything else is a judges decision with any cast member allowed to question it.
Of course the above only applies to a cast judged by a hunting judge but that covers the majority of casts these days.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
Well I did my own homework. On page 63,64 of our rule book it explains it. Seems like the judge should make all calls even the scoring of tree. I stand corrected humbly. If the judge can make the call of decision to say if it's coon or off game then stands to reason he should make call of the scoring of tree seems very contradictory!

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Jim, you beat me to it. I was going ask if he was referring to a hunting judge or a non-hunting judge. Non-hunting judge makes the decisions.

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I see on page 63, 64 the judges rule. But the irony of allowing the judge to make the call if its a coon seen or off game but yet not allowed to make the call of the scoring of the tree is beyond me.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
I see on page 63, 64 the judges rule. But the irony of allowing the judge to make the call if its a coon seen or off game but yet not allowed to make the call of the scoring of the tree is beyond me.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
I see on page 63, 64 the judges rule. But the irony of allowing the judge to make the call if its a coon seen or off game but yet not allowed to make the call of the scoring of the tree is beyond me.

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Jim read the following. Its from "Hunting Judges" in the rules.

a. Scoring a tree (plus, minus, or circle). This
does not include; 1) the decision on whether
or not the coon could cross out to an adjoining
tree or scoring multiple trees as one tree or; 2)
whether the game seen is a coon or off-game.
The Hunting Judge makes those decisions but
they may be questioned by a handler as outlined
below (5).

The rule says that the Cast votes on the scoring of the tree. But yet the Hunting judge makes the decision of a coon or off game is seen. This is irony of contradictory. The judge should make all calls even the scoring of the tree, if he can say if its coon or off game why cant he just make the call of the scoring of the tree to? Like any other call made a handler can ask for a vote. I understand this is the rule but makes no sense.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
I'm not sure if you are understanding the differences between hunting and non-hunting judges.
The reason a hunting judge is not given the authority to score trees alone is because the judge has a dog in the hunt. Do you really want your competitor deciding if your dog has a coon or not?
Hunting judges decide everything except the three situations I spoke of in my previous post. Of those three situations, UKC felt the fairest way to score those is by automatic cast vote. Everything else is scored by the judge with the ability to overturn the judge by a majority of the cast.

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Being a woman, you were prolly born lost and I'm not brave enough to try and correct that.

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Jim I reccommend a tracking collar for your ladies so you wont loose them no more!

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