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Nick Jennings
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 895

HOT nose vs. COLD nose

we'll keep it in the category of; Young Dogs
;raised and hunted in the same terrain with the same average # coon population.

1. what is your personal preference of nose for a yearling hound?

2. which one do you think will develop quicker/better in the long run to be the more dominate hound in a cast or all around dog so to speak

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04-07-2015 05:49 PM

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Josh Michaelis
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

I would classify them as dogs that can move a track and dogs that cant

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04-07-2015 06:23 PM

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POTOMAC
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3085

I agree with josh those thathavebeen the brains to match there nose and know how to use it !!myself breed for colder nose dogs that can take any track they open on and move it the rite way and do not bark inthe same place twice and don't beat and bang on any track !! But if they do it twice it's not the dogs fault !!! It's the handler responsibility to flush them out and make them realize they have to get onto a track they an Handle !!! And they will get better with age but most the real good track dogs are born thatway !!

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04-07-2015 09:42 PM

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toe cutter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

key words to me is "in a cast" (nite hunt).. mostly summer hunting . hot nosed. bout any counterfeit should be able to move a track in the summer, most of them should be hot tracks. higher temps, moist ground, more green ,track holds longer.
cold nosed dog for the guy that likes to tree coon all year long . cold nosed dogs do not only run cold tracks and by no means does cold nose mean slow. the right cold nosed dog can move a hot track just as fast or faster than a hot nosed dog.
a real deal dog should be able to tree any coon it gets after. I've had plenty that could move a old cold track but had the brains to relize they didn't have to when the coons were moving. had a few that the coon didn't have to be movin for them to tree em. they just had to be alive.
as far as a year old dog I don't have a preference. bout any of them is a who knows what they will actually be till they are bout 3 years old.

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04-07-2015 09:49 PM

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glynnsdawgs63
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

Hot or cold nosed,If you don't have tracking ability the nose don't matter

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04-07-2015 09:51 PM

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Give me one with a hot nose, a tight mouth,and alot of hustle. Startin a coon that passed through an hour ago and may be a mile away makes no sense to me.
But Coon population makes a big difference.

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04-07-2015 11:17 PM

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Jackson87
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

TC nailed it.For the hunts the dogs that I've seen put up some good scores looked to be hot nosed.They blew thru the country ambushing most of the coons they treed.

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04-07-2015 11:17 PM

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bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 2123

Don't matter if u hunt a smart hound he knows what kind of track he can handle got to have braines enough to handle it a good track dog is way more important to me than than hard treeing idiot will settle for just a good tree dog.

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04-08-2015 12:09 AM

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Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

We prefer medium, here we have medium populations, a cold nosed dog will miss some coon,because there to busy working out a cold track. A hot nosed dog will miss some coon, especially in tougher conditions, or will get to deep by passing up workable tracks. A good solid medium nosed dog will often be able to tree coon in most conditions, and still have the capabilities to put up high score if put in a good patch.

That being said, if I had to choose just between a cold or hot, I would choose cold, because I cold nosed hound will have the ability to learn to work out all types of tracks of years of practice, where as a hot nosed hound will simply not have the ability or patience to improve.

Along this subject, I recently acquired a hound back that was out in Indiana,in some thick coon. There is a noticeable difference in how quickly he is looking to get treed. He also seems less willing work out some tracks he used to regularly, so I also believe dogs can adapt to regions, and should.

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04-08-2015 01:49 AM

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Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Give me one with a hot nose, a tight mouth,and alot of hustle. Startin a coon that passed through an hour ago and may be a mile away makes no sense to me.
But Coon population makes a big difference.

Having a dog run a mile to tree a coon also makes no sense especially when they have passed up 3 or 4 workable tracks. I don't think coon generally travel that far to begin with but I see them travel half mile distances and under more regularly especially late fall and early winter when the acorns are down. I think quite often with feeder tracks coon will travel a 1000 yards or so to get to water or feed, but then will spend a lot of time in that particular area foraging. Any further and that, it seems they will switch dens. A coon dog should be able to work up a 2 or 3 hr old track to a foraging area, where they may be one or more coons feeding. Even though the coon only traveled 800 yards to get there, spending 30 min traveling, and 2hrs feeding. The once 2hrs and 30min old cold track gets really hot quick once the dog travels the 800 yards to the feeding area. A coon dog will reveal information about where your coon populations are traveling, and feeding. An ambush dog doesn't do any of this, and even worse if put in thin coon become pretty much incapable of doing anything. I also think colder nosed dogs take longer to finish out, there brain takes time to catch up there nose, however once the dog is finished at 4 to 5 years old, it can work out coon tracks other dogs can't smell in a. Quick fashion. Most guys don't seem to hunt a cold nosed dog hard enough or lose patience, before the pup can develop.

I do agree though a real cold nosed 4 to 8 hrs old track is overkill, but a dog that cant run a track older then 30 mins isn't much better. Of course what I may consider a medium nosed you may consider hot. So who knows.

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04-08-2015 02:07 AM

Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I would classify them as dogs that can move a track and dogs that cant

I would argue this point, in my experience how a dog runs a track has more to do with other things then there nose.

How much nose a dog has, simply will determine how old of a track a dog will mess with.
How fast of a track dog they are, I think has many different factors everything from there training,experience,brains,natural ability, tracking conditions, etc etc. In fact most of the hotter nosed dogs I have started were naturally faster on track because they simply didn't take the time or have the nose power to attempt to work out an older track.

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04-08-2015 02:18 AM

nkuhl
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Northern, Ohio
Posts: 266

Cold nose

A good cold nose hound will make others look silly when the conditions get tuff. I had the pleasure to hunt behind a couple 20 years ago or so and if I wouldn't have witnessed it I wouldnt have a clue today. Unfortunately I don't have one today. My experience is that none of the common reasons for lack of a coon existed. We hunted in full moon, bitter cold, etc and treed coon after coon night in and night out. I would take a true cold nosed hound that knows how to use it hands down but I really question if they still exist in today's hounds. jmo

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04-08-2015 02:38 AM

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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Give me one with a hot nose, a tight mouth,and alot of hustle. Startin a coon that passed through an hour ago and may be a mile away makes no sense to me.
But Coon population makes a big difference.

Yep, that's the kind I like. Anymore there are plenty of coons in my area, and no real reason to peck around at a track that's not workable, when a dog can skip on through the country and find one it can put on the outside quickly.
Don't tell me where he was, just show me where he is..!

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04-08-2015 02:57 AM

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toe cutter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

sounds like most people consider a cold nosed dog as one that boo hoos around all night trying to straddle track old tracks.
trailing dogs that can't move a track cause it wont lift its head....
cold nosed don't always mean mouthy slow trailing type dog.

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04-08-2015 03:54 AM

pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

for me i enjoy hearing a dog strike a older track when the rut is on in late winter an take the track get it moving faster n faster till it locates an trees. beautiful!
that's what i enjoy most!
i like comp hunting too. there fun but just a small amount of my hunting. so i like a dog i enjoy hunting year round.
hot nose dogs have advantages and disadvantages.
if you think a hot nosed dog wont waste time on a track they can't work your wrong. if you think they wont slick tree your wrong. if you have one with no reverse an you turn it loose in unfavorable weather be ready to walk and walk far. not for the weak.
if you have a lot of coon a hot nosed dog is easier to train and win at the hunts most of the time.

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04-08-2015 02:25 PM

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Ray&Luie
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3070

HOT & Cold

It don't really matter to me, most hot nosed dogs can smell the same trail another hound can smell they just don't have either the brains to work it or the desire to take it , I saw a jip of mine take a track away from a Cold nosed hound one night , he walked it she moved it ! most would say he had the colder nose but she treed the coon before he got there and they opened on the same track, who had the colder nose ?

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04-08-2015 04:18 PM

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Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

Re: HOT & Cold

quote:
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
It don't really matter to me, most hot nosed dogs can smell the same trail another hound can smell they just don't have either the brains to work it or the desire to take it , I saw a jip of mine take a track away from a Cold nosed hound one night , he walked it she moved it ! most would say he had the colder nose but she treed the coon before he got there and they opened on the same track, who had the colder nose ?

If he truly had a cold nose, I would say your dog has a better nose then you give it credit. I have had my dogs consistently tree coon, other dogs I own, would smell and pass on. I agree though there is certain thing in a dog that allows it to decide whether or not it wants to work out. I think a big part is where a dog is hunted and trained will impact on what a dog chooses to run or not. I also do believe some dogs do have better noses then others, for example I would guess most bloodhounds can smell older scents , then what a coon hound could.

I think a lot of pups that stand on there head, just need harder hunting and more experience, I know a lot of walker guys get frustrated with this,but in my experience a lot of walkers are medium to hot nosed, and a hot nosed pup will appear to be a better track dog, but it's just that there avoiding more challenging tracks, and will only take the easy ones. Imo with most pups, the more nose then brains syndrome can be hunted out of them. I heard once and agree with this statement and it's that a cold nosed dog will take a good 5 years to finish out because of there willingness to work out colder tracks.

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04-08-2015 05:56 PM

Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
for me i enjoy hearing a dog strike a older track when the rut is on in late winter an take the track get it moving faster n faster till it locates an trees. beautiful!
that's what i enjoy most!
i like comp hunting too. there fun but just a small amount of my hunting. so i like a dog i enjoy hunting year round.
hot nose dogs have advantages and disadvantages.
if you think a hot nosed dog wont waste time on a track they can't work your wrong. if you think they wont slick tree your wrong. if you have one with no reverse an you turn it loose in unfavorable weather be ready to walk and walk far. not for the weak.
if you have a lot of coon a hot nosed dog is easier to train and win at the hunts most of the time.

I agree with most of that, but a well seasoned fast and accurate cold nosed hound can give a hot nosed dog, a run for its money on a lot of nights imo, however as you know my experience is limited, so my opinions may change over time.

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04-08-2015 05:59 PM

Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

quote:
Originally posted by toe cutter
sounds like most people consider a cold nosed dog as one that boo hoos around all night trying to straddle track old tracks.
trailing dogs that can't move a track cause it wont lift its head....
cold nosed don't always mean mouthy slow trailing type dog.

In my experience cold nosed track drifting type hounds are a lot more likely to switch tracks, over run tracks, and sound as if they are really driving a track. However in reality they are often running more ground then needed, therefore becoming very inefficient.
I would think a really nice hound would be able to finish the coon it started, and then remember and return to the previous coon track it crossed over. In my experience track straddling type hounds are more efficient,effective and accurate.
I do agree though even a straddler needs to able to lift there head some, and learn to track quickly. However common sense would tell me that a pup that does something slowly but correctly over time should learn to become more efficient, and learn to work out tracks more quickly, through repetition. To me the difference is because they learned to do it correctly the first time, when finished out they will make less mistakes and will tree more coon then the drifting type hound, and make less mistakes.
I hope that makes sense TC. What is your experience these two different types of cold nosed hounds?

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04-08-2015 06:12 PM

Ray&Luie
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3070

Hot & Cold

In my experience , the track straddlers seem to be the ones most prone to backtracking , but whose to say the ones that don't open as much don't go back some as well, that's the reason I like an open mouth hound if he's barking and I can hear him I know what he's doing most of the time , that is if I know my hound very well ..

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

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04-08-2015 06:57 PM

nkuhl
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Northern, Ohio
Posts: 266

Cold nosed

No disrespect, but most hunters who have been hunting for less than 20 years probably have not seen a true good cold nosed hound. They were not slow track dogs, rather superior regardless of conditions. Unfortunately this trait don't exist much these days. If someone reading this post has one I'd love to hunt with it, buy it, breed to it, etc. I haven't seen one in a long time in my judgement.

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04-09-2015 11:56 PM

coonkde23
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: bloomington;in
Posts: 746

nkuhl

I sold my GR NT CH HILLTOP NORTHERN BLUE BOONE TO ED FReeman . Boone is out of Boomer & Ruby 1st cross . here are men that has hunted with Boone several times & know the type of nose he has , & can run tracks , & tree coon other dogs can't smell !!! Jason Taggart - Terry Tucker - Troy Salyers - Myself - Now Ed Freeman owner-1-502-269-0287- Brent Miller showed men in his part of the state ,that wasn't treeing coon . That Boone would tree coon , in them conditions . Extremely hot & dry conditions , or extremely cold & frozen ground conditions . Not a track straddler either . Call Ed for a hunt .

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04-10-2015 02:47 PM