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UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Breeds > Blueticks > Poll: Combining Breed Associations
What do you think of combining our 2 breed associations?
This poll is closed.
Yes! Combine BBCHA and BBOA 38 53.52%
No! Leave it the way is 33 46.48%
Total: 71 votes 100%
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bobbycagle1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

Smile Poll: Combining Breed Associations

What do y'all think about combining the two breed associations into one? I've heard this passed around for awhile now. Just interested in you're thoughts?

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Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

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Jim Bartley
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Deckerville, Michigan
Posts: 772

It'll never happen. One is UKC chartered and one is independent. One represent competition hunters and show dogs. The other represents all hunters, coon and big game.

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Jim Bartley
Lake Huron Blueticks
Deckerville, Michigan

Blueticks bred to run to catch and catch what they run!

"Believe in your greatness, honor your greatness, for the sake of ourselves and our children," Howard Glasser

“We are the free and unconquerable people of the United
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coonbone
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

Jim is right.Another good reason to have both organizations is the amount of quality bluetick hunts,and where they are held.In the past BBOA has been all about holding hunts in northern Indiana,or Ohio.Doesn't seem fair to the members in the southern states.

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bloxhdc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 173

Support the one you want to support and leave it alone.

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J. Lovell
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Spiro, Oklahoma
Posts: 356

If we only had one organization, we would probably only have half as many hunts to go to. It's nice to have two organizations working for us. You guys need to start a third organization and maybe we'll have three times as many hunts.

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Blueticks that I've started and hunted over the years:

Nt. Ch. Lovell's Coon Catching Blue Sally
Nt. Ch. Home Brew Blue Josie (Out of Gary Uchtman's Jobe and Sarah which is a Thorn female)
Gr. Nt. TP's Dizzy Dot (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Razor Ridge Pop-A-Top)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smokey River Blue Ann (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Coonbranch Blue Bandit)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smokey River Daisy (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Twin Springs Blazin Bull)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smoken Blue Molly (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Dillion's Smoken Blue Magic)
Gr. Nt. Lovell's Smokey River Snap (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Jennings Blue Top Hank)
Gr. Nt. Smokey River Blue Molly (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Smokey River Blue Wahoo (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Davis White River Sugar (Nt. Ch. Smokey River JBs Chief)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Katy Bar the Door (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Sky's Blue Bumble Bee (Gr. Nt. Ch. Northern Blue Jet 5)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Coon Catchin' Katie (Nt. Ch. Bowden's Wolf Creek Smokey)
Gr. Nt. Washburn Valley Blue Drip ( Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Uchtman's So. Blue Hornet)
Gr. Nt. Stewart's Natural Okie Reb (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Natural Smokey River Rebel)
Nt. Ch. Coon Catchin' Jim (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Clear River Diamond Jim)

Jeff Lovell (918) 839-3066

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Rolin Blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2963

To clarify

UKC is the one than brought this idea up of having 1 larger Bluetick asso. without having to have 2 sets of expenses & Bluebooks. Just wanted to point this out so noone thought it was trying to be a BBOA or BBCHA take over of other organization. Both associations are financially sound as far as I know so that's not an issue. Enjoy both, works for me. Take care, Ron.

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Baby Blue
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 59

both organizations host hunts

BBCHA mostly in the southwest where its membership is stronger, the fall round up has been in Illinois for several years but with change in president I'm sure it will gravitate back to the sw states.

BBOA has the breed national event and is open to bids but the guidelines are to keep it where it will draw maximum numbers, and the reunion if I remember rotates with each other year being the responsibility of both organizations

BBOA also has 7 zones and if you look at this page you will see many events offered from zone championships to state championship which gives all Bluetick followers the ability to attend as many of those events within their zone as they wish.

both are operated different from each other so bringing them together would be a massive undertaking on just how they would be governed let alone the basic traditions of each organization.

If both are financially solvent then why mess with something that is not broken ? And to say they would grow in numbers I don't believe as once stated by a former president and officers who did a survey both organizations have about a 60% duel membership and there will always be those if it was to happen who would not support it and next thing you know there would be another one started up to replace one or the other IMO

If it ain't broke don't mess with it, they both do a great job supporting and promoting the Bluetick coonhound !!!

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rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

I don't think our most recent zone hunt drew 10 dogs. How many dogs hunted at the most recent fall round up?

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Craig Edwards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.

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bobbycagle1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

quote:
Originally posted by Craig Edwards
It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.


I'm a dual member of both organizations. I agree with both sides of the argument on this question. I also believe combining will never happen until one or both can't afford to oporate anymore.

What about trying to unify the breeds associations but keeping them separate too? What are you saying? I mean hold hunts together? Have state championship hunts with both sharing the role at the same time? And then having a "Superbowl" type of hunt at the end of the year? BBOA vs. BBCHA? It would be like a bluetick world hunt in and of itself? Idk. What do y'all think?

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Waldron, Arkansas
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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4884

quote:
Originally posted by Craig Edwards
It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.


I could only afford to do an add in one book this year and not both like last year. I understand what your saying!

__________________
Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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Jim Bartley
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Deckerville, Michigan
Posts: 772

Fred Miller wanted BBCHA to be his Bluetick Association for years, and PKC approached the BBCHA about being it's breed association back in the late 90s, but the BBCHA was always intended to be an independent organization and God willing, it will always be independent.

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Jim Bartley
Lake Huron Blueticks
Deckerville, Michigan

Blueticks bred to run to catch and catch what they run!

"Believe in your greatness, honor your greatness, for the sake of ourselves and our children," Howard Glasser

“We are the free and unconquerable people of the United
States of America” - Eleanor Roosevelt, 12/7/1941

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BIG$BLUES
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1454

quote:
Originally posted by J. Lovell
You guys need to start a third organization and maybe we'll have three times as many hunts.
I remember people getting mad and saying they would never buy another BBOA membership because they couldn't hold a major hunt so the SBA was the new savior

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Craig Edwards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

I wonder if the associations are growing; memberships, hunt participants, and the blue books themselves? Anything that does not reproduce dies, plain and simple. If either assoc. is not reproducing (growing) it's a matter of time. I can't help but wonder, how many hunters can't afford to support both assoc.'s, and they don't know which one to support, so.............they don't support either one!

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coonbone
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

Thunder,the way i read the history of BBOA is they disbanded,and started back up in 1959.Maybe that's why BBCHA started up in 1954.

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bshort
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 48

quote:
Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
I remember people getting mad and saying they would never buy another BBOA membership because they couldn't hold a major hunt so the SBA was the new savior


I was thinking the same thing whatever happen to the SBA??????

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rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

what are some tangible benefits to the members and the breeds of having two organizations?

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Mark A. Hauck
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

been kind of watching this thread and thought I'd just put some facts into place

First off in 1946 the breed association put in place was not BBOA in fact it was called "Bluetick Breeders Association" with the first President being none other than O.O. Grant.

It was a well organized organization but due to the fact that hunts were so far and in between it failed after just a few years. Those older hunters that I talked to and read their stories regarding the first organization felt it was a great thing, just a little before its time.

Now enter the year 1959 a few years after BBHCA had organized. Then owner of UKC (Dr. E.G. Fuhrman) met with some of the more prominent Bluetick Breeders and owners to discuss an organization that would embrace all of the USA rather than just one specific region.

So became the birth and organization known as BBOA (Bluetick Breeders Of America) which was given the UKC Charter and as far as I know has always been the Charter accepted and requested Bluetick organization and have never known of any other request otherwise.

Craig - as far as overall hunts I think if anyone will look at averages over the last 10 years all coon hunts have fallen off, lets be honest folks its a dying sport and with little influence of our younger generation it will continue to fall and not just because of the lack of interest but also because of our surroundings as land becomes harder to find to hunt on, farms are made into mega farms and trees are ripped out to get a few more rows of corn or beans, lets face it, the days of 100 dogs at your local club hunt are gone forever.

This is just a fact, and last year all (ALL) of the breed association's had a major drop in their entries, some more than others but they all had decrease numbers at their major National events. With gas prices getting lower and if they should stay there till summer we might see an increase but if they go back up, slow in hires for jobs it will only get worse.

Thus is the need to prepare, think ahead and plan for such contingencies, and sound judgments on future plans within the breed associations and how we do business. Taking care of the clubs and the hunters who do travel and take part in our events, including the folks who show. Plan, and do more planning to get it right makes good practice.

Rance56 - I guess the advantage could be the competition between the two keeps them working to support the Bluetick Coonhound and the folks who follow and love them ? Also with friendly competition comes the basic fact that to win support of the member the officers of an organization must go out of their way to support and make the member feel welcomed and feel like they matter to the organization and are more than just a number. That and the fact that both organizations offer any member who belongs to a club to hold and host an event in their name (BBCHA & BBOA)

BIG$BLUES - The Bluetick Reunion which is a major event was held 2 straight years in the South, that being in North Carolina as a matter of fact, and though it was considered a mild success the numbers and support was way off even from those who lived in the surrounding states ???? Why ?? Don't know and it was in April and yes one year we had rain and I mean rain LOL but still I and many others knew of 25-30 plus major Bluetick folks who didn't show up, didn't support it and most of all the off breed folks in the local area didn't come and when you only have 3 walker guys show up ???WOW it kills your hunt and for some reason they didn't come and didn't support a major hunt in their area.

Well enough of my babbling and look deeper for the reason before you jump. Walkers have 3 organizations, Redbones have 2 organizations, English have 3 organizations, Black & Tans have 2 organizations and they all seem to be ok with them so why are we so determined to take two organizations who support one major goal but with different venues and history and rush to make them something they may not want or even survive if forced into something that was never meant to be ???

Be safe, and Tree Blue

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GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4884

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Thunder,the way i read the history of BBOA is they disbanded,and started back up in 1959.Maybe that's why BBCHA started up in 1954.


that could be right I just don't know. that's why I was asking for true facts from those that know cause I don't. thanks for giving that a thought

__________________
Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

Maybe the answer isn't combining but more coordination between the two.

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bobbycagle1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

Thanks Mark for the history lesson! That was great! I didn't know a lot of that. I'm not a board member or an officer of either organization, however, I am a member of both. But to me, if they both want to coexist, they need to revamp some things concerning the sectionals. I guess I mean making it where the sectionals mean more to the states and the local clubs? I really don't know how to do it, and it might not be able to be done?

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Craig Edwards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

I still think every breed would be stronger with one association, and focusing all of our attention and effort into one channel. There is strength in numbers.

I do believe our sport is on life support, and it will be a matter of time until coonhunting with hounds will be a thing of the past. The probability of the breed assoc's going under is probably greater than the possibility of uniting. If our sport, and fanciers of the bluetick hound are not reproducing, we will die. The average hunter will not join either one unless it relevant to the average hunter. There's no doubt it could be done, but I don't think it will happen. Unless breeders and fanciers are excited, we will not reproduce ( attract other and younger hunters) , but there must be a reason to get excited. If things are declining, for whatever reason, we are not going to see different results until we employ a different approach.
Mark, I've never been involved at the level you've been involved. Not very many have, but there are certain principals that hold true, just like the law of gravity. You can generate more electricity with one large, powerful, river than you can with two or three small streams.

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bobbycagle1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Waldron, Arkansas
Posts: 1333

Well said Craig! Ive been wanting to say that without coming across wrong. So thank you for saying it! There needs to be some excitement and changes at the grassroots level. I mean in us as members too! If our members aren't excited about what's going on, out association aren't going to reproduce. We need more prizes and more incentives at the local level. Jmo. And Craig, you're right about getting younger folks in our sport. And its not just our breed, but all breeds have to do a better job at getting younger folks into our sport. I hope we start getting it done! Because I love our breed and our sport!

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rance56
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 4046

ive looked through numerous bbchh an bboa bluebooks, and unless im way mistaken, some of the most vocal on here arent even a member to either most if not all years.

how can you give advice on what should happen or what needs to happen, and you cant even buy a membership for $25?

for these organizations to be successful as they can, it is as simple as most all of us buying a membership each year and going to the breed hunts, even if its just one or two of the ones that are close by. and heck, even u dont competition hunt and cant get someone to hunt the dog for ya, just come show a couple of dogs to support the breed and the organization.

and im sure im going to overlook someone that deserves special recognition and im sorry if i do, but i cant help bu tmention if we had a couple hundred members like Tommy Higgins, we would have hardly any worries. Thanks Tommy and to all the members for the support

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coonbone
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 599

I belong to both bluetick organizations.If i had to pick only one to belong to,i would pick BBCHA because of the money incentive to win the world hunt.I like the idea of the organization giving back to the members,and striving to breed better hounds.

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