Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3416

In the 50 + years I've been following these coon hounds in my observations I have found too many people who breed hounds and too few that are hound breeders. Am I right or wrong? Maybe in my (older) age I'm getting too critical. To me when I talk about a BROOD FEMALE she is a proven hound in the woods and has raised at least one litter of pups from a good male that is proven to produce and at least half of the pups show promise. Now a BROOD FEMALE is usually a female that isn't good enough to hunt and someone is trying to make their money back on her. I don't think titles mean everything either. Just because dogs carry a pedigree that looks great doesn't mean the dog can reproduce, he or she may have missed out on all the GOOD genes or the cross doesn't match. These observations are what I've seen trying to breed dogs and more so trying to breed Quarter Horses. I have quit both endeavors This is just my own opinion not trying to make anyone angry.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11948

they are some in it to better the breed and some in it that wants to sell alot of pups they are in it for the money they just breed anything with some good blood in thier papers dont matter if they can run and tree a coon or not they just want to sell pups jmo

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

of treeing walkers. I take my breeding very seriously and have been breeding the same stock of hounds for over 30 years.
Just because folks make crosses doesn't make them breeders. A true breeder still hunts their own strain of hounds and make responsible crosses when possible. Most stud dog owners will breed to anything and lots of folks just breed to sell puppies.

As a breeder here I breed to keep something for my own hunting and showing. I put my name on my hounds so if I am not responsible and make dumb choices when I breed, it will show up under my name. That's why I take a long, long thought to what I breed my females to. Since I am hunting the 10 generation of hounds from my first cross, that means I make a cross about every three years on the average. Now I have made experimental crosses several times like 1/2 bro. to 1/2 sister. Father to daughter, Uncles to neices grand father to grand daughter crosses etc. These were not sold to the public. These were farmed out to friends and relatives who hunt to just see how they worked.

I do my homework before I make a cross. I wait to see if a female will strike run and tree her own game and has no serious genetics faults like backtracking, mean at the tree, etc. before I breed them. I have been very, very fortunate that because I take my time and do a lot of research since my first cross, every cross I have made each and every pup had the same characteristics that I wanted.

I wanted the best looking, best hunting hound I could own so I set high standards to begin with and I will not deviate from that standard. Here are my requirements:

1.Intelligence
2.loud
3.beautiful and fully meet breed standards with cat feet and
straight legs
4. independent
5. Hard hunting, but not straight liners. Much like bird dogs.
6.easy to train and not prone to fast game or off game.

I have volumes of pictures from these early crosses and pics on here on the walker forum under Gr. Ch. Stevenson's Dancin Rabbit Boots that show hounds with these exact characteristics that I am hunting and showing today that exhibit these exact traits.

From the first cross till cross number 10 each and every pup looked sounded and acted the same. There are numerous hard, hard to please hunters that have my hounds back in behind the hounds they hunt today. I never advertised a hound or crosses until the internet. I did all this breeding in my backyard and each one was for my own use so that I would have something to hunt and show myself and I am very critical of my own hounds and demand high, high quality in all areas above.

I hope I qualify as a responsible breeder.

what you mentioned above about folks breeding brood females is why you see folks selling some of these $750 dollar 9 month old pups that arent even started yet because that is what they paid for them at weaning age and they still don't know a coon from a stuffed poodle.

These all grand to all grand pedigrees and world champion to world champion $1,000 dollar pups aren't one bit any better than the $100 to $300 dollar pups I sell out of my kennel today. Not all crosses work. I know. I have made them all and seen them all.
Genetics is everything when you make a cross. On paper doesn't mean it will work. The pedigree is the starting point for me not the ending point before I breed.

Just like yall. It's just my opinion. I begrudge no one for what they can get for a pup. I'd like to get a grand for mine as well, but also with being a responsible breeder, I also am an old time coonhunter who worked hard for a living and have always priced anything I sold that a working man could afford it without taking away from his family. That has been and will always be my way of doing business.

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Grand Champion Stevenson's "Little Bone Peep"
2016 Miss. State Gr. Show CH.
Overall Miss. State Show CH.
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Johnny Jet,"

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

i have never owned a good bred dog as some call it that was worth a darn... all the good ones i ever had were accidents or flukes...

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

When it cools down, you're not that far from me, give me a call and come up and I will introduce you to some local breeders who can sell you a pup that you will like. Mr. Whimp Aaron who lives less that thirty miles from me has been selling pups like all the Skuna River hounds like Bark and Fred and tons more that he has been breeding for around 40 years. Just like me he raises them from his own females and has been putting out a great product year after year.

__________________
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Little Bone Peep"
2016 Miss. State Gr. Show CH.
Overall Miss. State Show CH.
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Johnny Jet,"

__________________
Team Bible Thumper
Palms 18:39........You armed me with strength for battle; you made my adversaries bow at my feet!
Two questions sum up life....
Why am I here ? And Where am I headed.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

but wimp will tell you himself to knock the males in the head... so not my kind of breeding... would love to hunt sometime...

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

your first post above is one of the best posts ive ever read on here,,i tried to quote it and move it back up but for some reason it wouldnt do it ,,,ty chuck west

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

thanks for your kind response. I try hard in what I do. Since I have to hunt what I breed, I have to pay attention to what I am doing and I take breeding hounds very seriously.
My dogs are not perfect, but what I have found that works for me is understanding a dogs intelligence and temperment factor first. Most of the time before I breed to a hound, I like to spend time with it and watch how it acts around humans and I most of the time, I can see in their eyes their ability to do cognative thinking. Thats where they actually use their brains to figure things out and interact.

I'll give you an example of my most recent cross I made.

My females are always intelligent and most of the time very, very outgoing. The hound I bred to was John Walkers bocephus dog in southaven, I have known Bo since he was 8 weeks old.
By the time he was just knee high mayber 4 or 5 months old, John could lay a frito on his head and make him wait till he said go and then he would eat it. by the time he was just a year or old so, John could walk through a large business called Sportsmans warehouse kinda like a bass pro shop without a lead and Bo would walk right behind him healing. Now that is a high level intelligent hound. He was beautiful, loud, independent and could run a track at 7 months old better than anymans gown finished hound.
I bred to him when he was 4 years old. Now that is what you call doing your homework. My Mittie female is out of Bo. Showed her two caged coons at the age of 5 months old about a week apart.
Let the third one loose without her knowing it was on the place.
Turned her out like we were going for our daily walk in the woods like I usually did since she was 9 or 10 weeks old and she struck and ran and treed that coon. She never knew it was a turned loose coon. she has been running and treeing ever since. How much easier can it get?

Because I did my homework and bred intelligence to intelligence and did not compromise my original goals. I got exactlly what I wanted.

Patch.....Im not sure why whimp would say that. I know he prefers females as I do. But because of Whimp there are lots of male stud dogs that I am glad didnt get knocked in the head because Bo is directly out of Bark and came from Whimps breeding. John has another pup from another cross that just turned two that will put the hurt on many grand night champions.

Breeding is an art not a used car sales lot. Many, many crosses are made with the goal in mind to sell pups. My experience is that not all dogs male and female line up genetically. You can breed a world champion to a world champion and there is no guarentee that they will make even decent dogs and sometimes you can breed an old female that was just never hunted right from the get go and breed her to a nice hound and get world beaters.

It's all in the genetics. Hope this helps the average hunter when he is thinking about making a cross. Mr. Don Nicely who writes breeding articles for American Cooner really knows a lot about genetics. I highly recommend reading his articles. He does exactly what I do or should I say. I do what he does. He has been doing it longer than me. I did a lot of experimenting before I got it lined out right. But always I bred the best I had to the best I could find. That is a good place to start.

__________________
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Little Bone Peep"
2016 Miss. State Gr. Show CH.
Overall Miss. State Show CH.
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Johnny Jet,"

__________________
Team Bible Thumper
Palms 18:39........You armed me with strength for battle; you made my adversaries bow at my feet!
Two questions sum up life....
Why am I here ? And Where am I headed.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
Posts: 3416

cripple creek, I believe you are right when you say you are a breeder. There are too few true breeders left in the hound world. I congratulate you on the success you have had and wish you continued success. Thanks for sharing your ideas on breeding.

__________________
Ignorance: the lack of knowledge, education, etc.
Stupidity: lacking normal intelligence.
Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand.
You can't fix STUPID!

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

There are plenty more out there. You just have to dig and find um.

__________________
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Little Bone Peep"
2016 Miss. State Gr. Show CH.
Overall Miss. State Show CH.
Grand Champion Stevenson's "Johnny Jet,"

__________________
Team Bible Thumper
Palms 18:39........You armed me with strength for battle; you made my adversaries bow at my feet!
Two questions sum up life....
Why am I here ? And Where am I headed.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: airville pa
Posts: 586

old thread but a good one

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