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billymcc
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
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Posts: 4

liver bluetick

I recently had a litter of pups and one came out liver or buckskin colored. I'm keeping the liver pup for myself and I'm wondering what it is going to look like. Any pictures?

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Old Post 02-21-2015 03:28 PM
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glynnsdawgs63
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
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Old Post 02-22-2015 03:17 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3466

I've never seen that before. Does that meet breed standards? It's nice that your shirt matches. LOL

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billymcc
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Registered: Jan 2013
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Thumbs up

nice looking dog. thanks for the picture

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Old Post 02-22-2015 04:11 PM
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glynnsdawgs63
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I've never seen that before. Does that meet breed standards? It's nice that your shirt matches. LOL


They don't meet breed standard today but several foundation breeders used liver females in there programs.ABILITY OVER COLOR

Glynn Holmes

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Old Post 02-22-2015 04:24 PM
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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4884

You can register it x breed now

__________________
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918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
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2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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cwbluebio
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: macon, ga
Posts: 894

We know that in the past -prior to say 1946-Redticks and/or tri colored dogs were or could have been used by hunters. In all my years of hunting , following these hounds, collecting materials in books and magazines and traveling these United States I know of no foundation breeders ever using liver colored dogs for any reason. I have produced a few from different lines-Arkie and Jet. Saw a couple in Texas but did not know what line they came from and know of a couple of other lines that have produced a few over the years.

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Old Post 02-23-2015 05:42 AM
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Dan Dogs
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

Dock it's tail, and it would like a german shorthair.

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breezyoaks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 880

Question ??

dan dogs....i think ya just answered the 100 dollar question...
do they get on the tree or just point in that direction ?

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Old Post 02-26-2015 12:18 PM
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Todd K / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
You can register it x breed now


Correct ! Register him X-Bred and you can still enter him in the nite hunts, field trials and water races.

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Old Post 02-26-2015 01:32 PM
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billymcc
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location:
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I'm not going to register it . But if I do register my liver bluetick , does it have to be x bred? Also, if it is registered as xbred will it show both parents pedigrees on the registration still?

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Old Post 02-26-2015 02:06 PM
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cwbluebio
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: macon, ga
Posts: 894

In both instances where liver colored dogs were produced by dogs I owned and in every instance that I know of where they were produced by other lines the dogs came from very close line breeding. No Bird dogs were in the pedigrees of the dogs. One of the Liver colored males is as houndy and as much of a natural tree dog as I have ever seen of any breed at any time over the last fifty plus years. This should answer your 100 dollar question. If some one else breeds something else into their dogs, I do not know about that. Take the time to read, research and find out the facts, rather than repeating things from unreliable sources.

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Old Post 03-01-2015 09:32 PM
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breezyoaks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 880

CW

Dont get a wild hair crossways.
in Glynn Holmes post he states several foundation breeders used liver colored stock....then you rattled about nobody ever used any liver colored stock in the history of blue hounds....then you also stated that you knew of liver colored litter in other states..i.e. Texas..but you had no clue what cross they surfaced from......sounds to me like ya just plain dont really know....
so maybe dan dogs did answer the 100 dollar question......
dont wanna repeat too much cuz hard to tell who and what the so called reliable source really is.


Relax....

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Home of the ROCK dog

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Last edited by breezyoaks on 03-03-2015 at 03:46 AM

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Old Post 03-03-2015 03:42 AM
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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Question

quote:
Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
Correct ! Register him X-Bred and you can still enter him in the nite hunts, field trials and water races.


Got a question for you Todd. If you register one of these liver colored blueticks as X-Bred, then breed it to a registered Bluetick, can the pups be registered as pure bred Blueticks providing their coloration in not liver?

Thank you,
Vic

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Old Post 03-03-2015 06:35 PM
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Dan Dogs
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

Nobody has any control on what people crossed on to there dogs back 50-60 yrs ago. When you start breeding close relatives it is bound to surfice once in a while. Before DNA came dog jocks would throw a set of papers on anything that resembled the breed. One of the best coon treers I ever hunted with was half bird dog and he could pass for a clover dog before DNA came about.

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Home of:
- Gr. Nite Ch. Iowa County Crybabe
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan
- Gr. CH Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan II
- CH. Gr. Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan III 2008 Performance Sire
- CH. Gr.Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan IV 2004 ukc world hunt finalist
- Ch. Gr.Nite Ch. Mounds Creek Sassy II
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Bucky HTX 3 wins towards grnite
- GrCh.GrNtCh Hickory Nut Bawlie HTX
-Nite ch. PR Iowa County CryBaby II 2013 Badger State Hunt Champion
qualified for 2013 UKC World Hunt
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Last edited by Dan Dogs on 03-03-2015 at 09:03 PM

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cwbluebio
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: macon, ga
Posts: 894

In my replies I was attempting to down play the use of "wives tales" types of explanations about dogs from Bluetick lines showing up liver colored. This post wanted to know-"What was going on with that?" A basic understanding of how color is expressed in the phenotype and acquired through the genotype will reveal why this phenomenon occurs in our hounds. I have great respect for Mr. Ormiston and his work for our breed and his efforts to educate and enlighten others about our hounds. In my conversations with him, as well as Elbert Vaughn, Ed Meeks, Joe B Redden, Delma Smith, E K Malcom, Eddie Ross, Warren Haslouer, Dave Dean, Ed Mead and this vast collection of books and magazines dating back to the turn of the century (The 19th to the 20th)while gathering a hundred year history of our dogs and the men who made all this possible. It is based on that research that I stated my findings in the previous post. I was not trying to upset anyone. I wish every one of you the very best with your dogs and feel that we benefit collectively from the success of others. DNA is our most useful tool in determining the lineage of our hounds. Good luck!

Last edited by cwbluebio on 03-04-2015 at 01:00 PM

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Old Post 03-04-2015 04:16 AM
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Todd K / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:
Originally posted by billymcc
I'm not going to register it . But if I do register my liver bluetick , does it have to be x bred? Also, if it is registered as xbred will it show both parents pedigrees on the registration still?


Yes, the dog would have to be registered as X-Bred. UKC will not knowingly register a dog into a breed that has a disqualifying color.

Yes, X-Bred dogs show a complete pedigree of registered parents.

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Todd K / UKC
Administrator

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Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

Re: Question

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Got a question for you Todd. If you register one of these liver colored blueticks as X-Bred, then breed it to a registered Bluetick, can the pups be registered as pure bred Blueticks providing their coloration in not liver?

Thank you,
Vic



Yes! That's why the breed association votes regarding re-entry are important even in this first year. Lots of people think they won't have to consider re-entry for a few years until three generations are bred. Not true. You could be facing it this first year.

If a purebred dog has a disqualifying color it must be registered X-Bred but it's pedigree is still pure Bluetick. If that X-Bred dog is bred back into the same breed it's pups would be eligible for re-entry because they are more than 80% that breed. However it would require that the pups meet the breed standard (as you stated above) and also that the breed association be open for re-entry. And yes, the Bluetick breed is open to re-entry for 2015.

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southernthunder
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4884

Re: Re: Question

quote:
Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
Yes! That's why the breed association votes regarding re-entry are important even in this first year. Lots of people think they won't have to consider re-entry for a few years until three generations are bred. Not true. You could be facing it this first year.

If a purebred dog has a disqualifying color it must be registered X-Bred but it's pedigree is still pure Bluetick. If that X-Bred dog is bred back into the same breed it's pups would be eligible for re-entry because they are more than 80% that breed. However it would require that the pups meet the breed standard (as you stated above) and also that the breed association be open for re-entry. And yes, the Bluetick breed is open to re-entry for 2015.



Great explanation!

__________________
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918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels


HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
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Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

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