Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

All dogs are struck and treed. Dog B is struck for 75 pts and treed for 75 pts. As cast gets to tree, Dog B is seen off the tree and milling around and then goes back on the tree. The judge says, "Dog B is minused his tree points" and handler of Dog B agrees. All dogs are handled and cast scores tree. They all agree that it is slick and minuses dogs A, C and D on strike and tree. Now how do you score dog B? Are his strike points minused or circled for "coming into a tree where no coon is seen"?

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3147

No coon seen. Score it just like he came into the tree. Because after he took tree minus that's what he did, came into a closed tree

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
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Does dog B go back on the tree he was treed on or does he go back on the tree dogs A, C, and D were treed on?

Do the trees touch so that you are scoring as all one tree or was dog B actually on a totally separate tree?

If he went to Dogs A,B,D before the cast arrived at the tree he gets minuses his strike. If he went to dogs A,C,D after cast arrives his strike gets circled.

If he went back to his original tree that he was split on, then the judge can apply the stationary, (after completing the scoring of dogs A,C,D) and at that point the handler of dog B must decide if/when he is going to tree his dog at that particular tree. After that you would score his strike and tree points based on what you found on that tree.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
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Sorry my bad, please disregard most of my post as I mis-read. As their is no mention of a split. Sorry, my brain is not yet working this morning,LOL

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

High Ridge, that is how I would score it and that is what MOH ruled but 2 cast members called UKC/Paul Frederick the next day. According to them, Mr Frederick said that Dog B should have gotten his 75 tree points minused and then been awarded more tree points and gotten them minused also plus his strike.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

I think Paul was correct. It all depends if the dog that was minused for leaving went back to treeing before the cast arrived. I'm not good at quoting rule numbers but there is rule that states dog(s) will be minused strike and awarded next available tree points for treeing on slick tree if not declared treed before the cast arrives.

Something like that

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Going strictly by your scenario, dog B takes minus tree and then is handled because he comes back to the tree while the cast is already at the tree so his strike points are circled.
When the cast arrives at the tree the dog is either treed or not, you cant minus the dog for not being treed and then turn around and assign tree points for being treed when the cast arrives.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 04-18-2014 at 05:38 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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In my opinion, if you can see that the dog is off the tree well enough to minus him, then you have "arrived at the tree". But I guess that UKC does not think this way. Also I wonder what "next availabe position" is when all tree points have been used?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
I think Paul was correct. I'm not good at quoting rule numbers but there is rule that states dog(s) will be minused strike and awarded next available tree points for treeing on slick tree if not declared treed before the cast arrives.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1100

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
In my opinion, if you can see that the dog is off the tree well enough to minus him, then you have "arrived at the tree". But I guess that UKC does not think this way. Also I wonder what "next availabe position" is when all tree points have been used?

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 349

Dog minused 75 for being off tree. Then he is minused 75 strike and next available which would be 25 on tree for being handled on a slick tree.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
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quote:

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Originally posted by randy ar
Dog minused 75 for being off tree. Then he is minused 75 strike and next available which would be 25 on tree for being handled on a slick tree.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 04-18-2014 at 07:47 PM

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Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Zanesville Ohio
Posts: 52

I have a question. How can you award next tree points anyway when, if I read correctly, all 4 dogs had been treed. There would not have been any points available to award or am I looking at it wrong?

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
In my opinion, if you can see that the dog is off the tree well enough to minus him, then you have "arrived at the tree". But I guess that UKC does not think this way. Also I wonder what "next availabe position" is when all tree points have been used?

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2848

quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
I'm not good at quoting rule numbers but there is rule that states dog(s) will be minused strike and awarded next available tree points for treeing on slick tree if not declared treed before the cast arrives.

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That's another rule that needs to be eliminated just like the stationary tree rule. ELIMINATE them both

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

If dog is seen milling the tree, you have reached the tree. Dog can not get next available position. He is circled on his strike, minus on tree for 75.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: long bottom ohio
Posts: 280

quote:

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Originally posted by STROKIN
If dog is seen milling the tree, you have reached the tree. Dog can not get next available position. He is circled on his strike, minus on tree for 75.

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Last edited by shawnfitzgerald on 04-19-2014 at 12:13 PM

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

quote:

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Originally posted by shawnfitzgerald
this is exactly how it should have been scored but his strike should be deleted those circle might come in to play in a tie breaker. But there is not a whole lot of common sense used these days

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: long bottom ohio
Posts: 280

I know what the rule is I was saying that is how it should scored. Why would you circle? There is no hiding place for a coon. I started hunting these hunts almost 30 years ago ukc need to change a few rules now and did then as well. Count down on trees next available rule etc. they are adding a few new rules such as can use a garmin during hunting time roflmao

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

according to he advisor if the dog and cast arrive at the same time = the dog came in after

p42

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

I would score things as they happen....

All dogs treed = tree is closed.
Dog leaves tree = minus his tree points.
Dog comes in to closed tree = score accordingly.

Simple.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 54

What does UKC say arriving at the tree is or is it a judgement call too... Is it when all cast members can see the tree or is it when judge say handle the dogs...

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by Playntreetag
[B.... or is it when judge say handle the dogs... [/B]

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If this were the case then a judge could just wait until the dog came back and got back up on the tree. All right "UKC", we have been patiently waiting on y'all to get back from Walker Days. If you wait a couple more days then the leaves will be back and it won't matter until next winter.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

I'm not Paul but.........

If the dog was off the tree and milling when the judge arrived then he certainly cannot be a dog treeing but not declared treed when the judge arrived. Can't be both!

I asked Paul about speaking with anyone in this regard. Sounds like the stories are not exactly the same.

Per your description, I'd minus tree points for Dog B and consider him a dog coming in after the judge arrived and circle up his strike points.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
Posts: 1478

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
High Ridge, that is how I would score it and that is what MOH ruled but 2 cast members called UKC/Paul Frederick the next day. According to them, Mr Frederick said that Dog B should have gotten his 75 tree points minused and then been awarded more tree points and gotten them minused also plus his strike.

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