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WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

CHV- A puppy killer that most don't know anything about

I'm going through the toughest thing I've ever experienced with dogs right now. My puppys have been dying 1 at a time. We have lost 7 out of 10 now and I'm starting to worry that we might end up losing the whole litter. What is killing them is something I never even new existed and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people have never heard of it.
It is Canine herpes virus - CHV or its also refered to as Fading puppy syndrome. If you don't know about it and you breed dogs I'd strongly suggest you google it and educate yourselves. I'll give a quick summary of it now.
1st off the canine herpes virus is one of the most common things there is. Everything I've read about it says that 50 to 70% of every dog has it. With coonhounds that are around other dogs more then most I'd bet that % is substantially higher. With adult dogs and puppies over 3 weeks old it doesn't really effect them at all and they build immunity to it fairly quick. They will allways be a carrier of it, but you'd never even know they had it. Where the problems come is in my particular situation. Apparentley my Maggie female didn't have it yet until just recently. She must have gotten it sometime just before she was bred, when she was bred or after she was pregnant so she hadn't had a chance to build anti-bodies against the virus.
Therefore some of her newborn pups got it. When pups under 3 weeks of age catch it there is nothing you can do. The pup will be dead within 48hrs of seeing the 1st symptoms and again there is nothing you can do.
My wife and I have been trying to quaratine any pups at 1st sign of any symptoms and we are doing everything possible to keep all of them from getting it and dying. The problem is that some have had it and spread it before we even seen any symptoms. The only good thing we can get from what is happening is that now that Maggie has had it, it won't be a problem in any of her future litters.
Again, I strongly suggest that anyone who reads this researchs CHV and learns about it so they don't have to bury has many pups as I'm having to.

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02-17-2014 10:32 PM

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WattsFlatsRedbo
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

Nothing, not even extreme heat will kill CHV in a pup. There is only one treatment that is known and that is taking blood from an adult dog that has recently built up immunity to the virus and has a HIGH # of anti-bodies in their blood and giving the pup a blood transfusion with their blood. Most vets will not even do this because once a pup has the virus internal damage has already taken place and the pup will have major problems the rest of their life even if they do survive. You should research this virus yourself. Most vets recommend that if a pup has the virus the most humane thing to do is nothing and just let them pass away.

When people read this post please keep in mind that I've been around hounds long enough to know a couple of things and also my wife has a college degree as a vet tech so we are not totally incompitent. The only reason I'm posting about this virus is to try and help educate others about it. More than likely it will never effect most and if your smart you'll be hoping your dog does already have CHV and most likely it does. It just happened to be that my female was one of the few that didn't and caught it at the worst possible time and it passed to her pups before she built up immunity to it. Any females I have in the future will be exposed to the virus anyway I have to do it long before their bred in the future. This is the only way to guarantee this doesn't happen to you. There is a vaccination that does just that in Europe, but isn't approved in the states. Why????? I don't know.

Why hasn't anyone heard of this before. Well I dare to speculate it is because when a few have had the exact same situation that we're having they probally assumed it was Parvo. In one way I kind of wished it was. Atleast Parvo is treatable when caught early enough and only has a 20% mortality rate. Where as if a pup under 3weeks old gets CHV theres nothing you can do, but watch them die.

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02-17-2014 10:36 PM

Jim Bartley
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Deckerville, Michigan
Posts: 772

Thanks for posting this. I had similar problems the past few litters I've whelped with pups fading and not being able to save them. Didn't know about this virus, but I will read up on it and talk to my vets about it. Thanks again!

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02-17-2014 11:20 PM

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cartwright
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3634

Thanks for posting. . I never heard of it before. But I recently had some issues in my last two litters. With different female's. I don't think it was this at all. I had other issues the mothers were killing them . But something to research on...

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02-17-2014 11:44 PM

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Chiggers
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Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
Posts: 4600

Re: CHV- A puppy killer that most don't know anything about

quote:
Originally posted by WattsFlatsRedbo
I'm going through the toughest thing I've ever experienced with dogs right now. My puppys have been dying 1 at a time. We have lost 7 out of 10 now and I'm starting to worry that we might end up losing the whole litter. What is killing them is something I never even new existed and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people have never heard of it.
It is Canine herpes virus - CHV or its also refered to as Fading puppy syndrome. If you don't know about it and you breed dogs I'd strongly suggest you google it and educate yourselves. I'll give a quick summary of it now.
1st off the canine herpes virus is one of the most common things there is. Everything I've read about it says that 50 to 70% of every dog has it. With coonhounds that are around other dogs more then most I'd bet that % is substantially higher. With adult dogs and puppies over 3 weeks old it doesn't really effect them at all and they build immunity to it fairly quick. They will allways be a carrier of it, but you'd never even know they had it. Where the problems come is in my particular situation. Apparentley my Maggie female didn't have it yet until just recently. She must have gotten it sometime just before she was bred, when she was bred or after she was pregnant so she hadn't had a chance to build anti-bodies against the virus.
Therefore some of her newborn pups got it. When pups under 3 weeks of age catch it there is nothing you can do. The pup will be dead within 48hrs of seeing the 1st symptoms and again there is nothing you can do.
My wife and I have been trying to quaratine any pups at 1st sign of any symptoms and we are doing everything possible to keep all of them from getting it and dying. The problem is that some have had it and spread it before we even seen any symptoms. The only good thing we can get from what is happening is that now that Maggie has had it, it won't be a problem in any of her future litters.
Again, I strongly suggest that anyone who reads this researchs CHV and learns about it so they don't have to bury has many pups as I'm having to.

How old are they ?

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02-17-2014 11:44 PM

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Jim Bartley
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Deckerville, Michigan
Posts: 772

I lost mine all 1-3 days old. But a couple at 2 weeks. They won't suckle and tube feeding did no good. I read up on it since seeing this posting and mine showed symptoms listed. Read up on this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_herpesvirus

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02-18-2014 02:11 AM

WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

Re: Re: CHV- A puppy killer that most don't know anything about

quote:
Originally posted by Chiggers
How old are they ?

The 3 we have left are 12 days old now and seem to be doing well so far. We have separated them all so they can't infect each other incase some don't have it. They all were doing good at first. Feeding well and looking good. Then all of a sudden we'd start seeing symptoms and in about 24hrs they were all but done. It would start with lack of interest to eat, lethargy, sometimes throwing up what milk we did force down them, then seizures at times, convulsing and then finally internal hemeraging with blood coming from their nose and mouth and constant crying in pain. I would not let them suffer too long.

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02-18-2014 04:23 AM

WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Bartley
I lost mine all 1-3 days old. But a couple at 2 weeks. They won't suckle and tube feeding did no good. I read up on it since seeing this posting and mine showed symptoms listed. Read up on this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_herpesvirus

I would read from more sources then this one. Run Canine herpes Virus on a search engine and read from multiple sources. I've found other sources that were a lot more informative then this one. Make sure they are reliable sources though.

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02-18-2014 04:30 AM

Cleo
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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

This is so sad
Im sorry for your loss. I have a litter here thats 5 weeks. I do not allow anyone around them at all. If they dont like it, too bad. I worry abt parvo, Im glad you saved a few.

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02-18-2014 11:36 AM

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blocksporthound
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Posts: 268

Many times it is spread transplacentally. You will see litters born with only one or two alive the rest stillborn. And yes "fading puppy syndrome" can be CHV or many many many times dehydration. Very sad and I am sorry for your lose.

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imacorgimom
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Posts: 657

CHV is not new. Breeders have known of it for over a decade. There is even a vaccine, but it is not available in the states.

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02-18-2014 01:32 PM

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calblu
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

quote:
Originally posted by imacorgimom
CHV is not new. Breeders have known of it for over a decade.

Agreed! I first learned about it at least 10 yrs ago from a talk at the local AKC club I belonged to, and it's a relatively common topic on most breeder lists geared toward AKC show breeders.
Also had a friend who bred Great Danes lose all but 1 pup to CHV, and that was at least 6 yrs ago. She probably hasn't bred a litter since without having fresh-frozen plasma (FFP) in her freezer.

Mike Whittington, DVM:
"CHV is a ubiquitous virus, most commonly transmitted as a mild to completely subclinical upper respiratory virus among adult dogs. It is part of the kennel cough complex. It is extremely common. So, trying to prevent its spread between adult dogs is pointless. The risk period is the last 3 weeks of gestation (for naive bitches) and the first three weeks of life --exposure outside this time frame is not of concern.

Isolation of the bitch/pups for that 6 week period of time is the only protection available in the US--we don't have (and won't have) the CHV vaccine here."

More info on FFP and a source to purchase it if needed (Hemopet). It's useful for more than just CHV and has a decently long shelf life:
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpplasma.htm

http://www.hemopet.org/blood-bank/c...zen-plasma.html

http://www.2ndchance.info/herpesvirusdog.htm

Myra Savant Harris is extremely knowledgeable about puppies and their potential problems. I have all her books and she also travels around and does seminars where she discusses CHV, or will if asked about it. http://www.myrasavantharris.com/

Lots and lots of info out there about it.

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Last edited by calblu on 02-22-2014 at 09:00 PM

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02-18-2014 08:50 PM

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WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

quote:
Originally posted by imacorgimom
CHV is not new. Breeders have known of it for over a decade. There is even a vaccine, but it is not available in the states.

I know its not a new thing, but most know nothing about it, even some vets and I said in my post above that there is a vaccination, but its only available in Europe not in the states. Thanks for your reply anyways though.

Last edited by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-20-2014 at 02:26 AM

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02-20-2014 02:22 AM

WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

quote:
Originally posted by calblu
Agreed! I first learned about it at least 10 yrs ago from a talk at the local AKC club I belonged to, and it's a relatively common topic on most breeder lists geared toward AKC show breeders.
Also had a friend who bred Great Danes lose all but 1 pup to CHV, and that was at least 6 yrs ago. She probably hasn't bred a litter since without having fresh-frozen plasma (FFP) in her freezer.

Mike Whittington, DVM:
"CHV is a ubiquitous virus, most commonly transmitted as a mild to completely subclinical upper respiratory virus among adult dogs. It is part of the kennel cough complex. It is extremely common. So, trying to prevent its spread between adult dogs is pointless. The risk period is the last 3 weeks of gestation (for naive bitches) and the first three weeks of life --exposure outside this time frame is not of concern.

Isolation of the bitch/pups for that 6 week period of time is the only protection available in the US--we don't have (and won't have) the CHV vaccine here."

More info on FFP and a source to purchase it if needed (Hemopet). It's useful for more than just CHV and has a decently long shelf life:
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpplasma.htm

https://hemopet.imatrixbase.com/cli...6157.1392754083

http://www.2ndchance.info/herpesvirusdog.htm

Myra Savant Harris is extremely knowledgeable about puppies and their potential problems. I have all her books and she also travels around and does seminars where she discusses CHV, or will if asked about it. http://www.myrasavantharris.com/

Lots and lots of info out there about it.

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02-20-2014 02:29 AM

WattsFlatsRedbo
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

quote:
Originally posted by calblu
Agreed! I first learned about it at least 10 yrs ago from a talk at the local AKC club I belonged to, and it's a relatively common topic on most breeder lists geared toward AKC show breeders.
Also had a friend who bred Great Danes lose all but 1 pup to CHV, and that was at least 6 yrs ago. She probably hasn't bred a litter since without having fresh-frozen plasma (FFP) in her freezer.

Mike Whittington, DVM:
"CHV is a ubiquitous virus, most commonly transmitted as a mild to completely subclinical upper respiratory virus among adult dogs. It is part of the kennel cough complex. It is extremely common. So, trying to prevent its spread between adult dogs is pointless. The risk period is the last 3 weeks of gestation (for naive bitches) and the first three weeks of life --exposure outside this time frame is not of concern.

Isolation of the bitch/pups for that 6 week period of time is the only protection available in the US--we don't have (and won't have) the CHV vaccine here."

More info on FFP and a source to purchase it if needed (Hemopet). It's useful for more than just CHV and has a decently long shelf life:
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpplasma.htm

https://hemopet.imatrixbase.com/cli...6157.1392754083

http://www.2ndchance.info/herpesvirusdog.htm

Myra Savant Harris is extremely knowledgeable about puppies and their potential problems. I have all her books and she also travels around and does seminars where she discusses CHV, or will if asked about it. http://www.myrasavantharris.com/

Lots and lots of info out there about it.

Thank's for this info. I have read a lot of this already though. My problem was, like most, I didn't know about CHV. That's why I started this thread to help raise awareness about it. Once a pup under 3 weeks of age has it its too late to do anything. I did have my female isolated, I thought. However I did have a male kenneled beside her and I'd let them loose in the same areas, not at the same time though, and my female is gross and likes to eat other dogs poop so she could have possibly got it that way.
Also with everything I've read about CHV (all from reliable sources) opinions vary a little about it. Some said that it can still affect a litter if they caught it even as early as the time of being bred. Also most say that once a female has had it that it won't ever be a issue again in any future litters, but I've also read that it is possible for some females to have a relapse from being too stressed during pregnancy and still infect pups again. If that happens they suggested that the female shouldn't be bred again.
I read the article about the plasma treatment and that sounds like a lot to put the female and pups through. Also with the pups not getting the mothers milk the first few days that just sounds like opening the doors to new problems to me. I think I'll just stick with my plans of making sure my females have been infected well before being bred and if they still infect pups in their litter because of relapses to CHV, then they won't be bred again. I know I'm not gonna plan on having the mother go through C-sections and everthing else that is involved with this procedure everytime I'm looking to breed them. That's just my opinion though.

Last edited by WattsFlatsRedbo on 02-20-2014 at 03:11 AM

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02-20-2014 02:42 AM

calblu
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

WattsFlats, I didn't intend my post to be directed to you. I'll bet at this stage you have read most everything on the internet already! I was simply adding information to your thread for others to be able to check out.
But..... for proactive non-emergency situations, the procedure my friend followed with the FFP was as stated in the very last paragraph on the devinefarm.net link -- "Use of plasma is recommended by Dr. Stockner's office for healthy neonates as well as potential problem situations. It is provided frozen in 5/6cc syringes which are kept frozen until bitch starts whelp. Using one syringe per five pups (refrigerate between use), warming to body temperature, give orally by several drops at a time every two hours up to 1cc per 1 pound of body weight over the first 24 hours following whelp."
I wouldn't want to go through that whole IP transfusion regimen with every litter either.

FYI to anyone interested:
UC Davis is putting on a Canine Repro 101 seminar (which covers CHV) on March 1, 2014. It's also available as a webinar. I think the cost for the webinar is $45.
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ce/sm...e_repro_101.cfm

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02-22-2014 09:13 PM

Calamity in Ca.
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Anza, Ca.
Posts: 100

CHV experience

Two or three years ago I brought home a couple of dogs, one from Tennesee bred to Moses, a Buster II daughter that was in training with Josh Sterkis in Missouri and a pup we picked up in Indiana. I've raised Australian Shepherds for 40 years and Redbones for about 9 years and had never encountered this virus. The female bred to Moses whelped, she and the pups did fine, The Buster II daughter came into season after we returned and she was bred. Her pups seemed fine at birth but after a week or so seemed to start "shrinking" one by one and dying. I researched it on line and figured out what it was and asked my horse vet if he would help me pull some blood and spin off the plasma. We had what it took to get serum, but not what we needed to separate the plasma. He thought I should just keep the one little female puppy that was the lone survivor and continue with a pup he thought would have a superior immune system. I don't recall the timing, but about the same time, I decided to vaccinate an older litter for kennel cough, a practice I had not done before. A respiratory flu-like virus went through the entire bunch of dogs that I had there at the ranch. None of them got acutely ill, but coughed fr a week or so. This is the first and last time I've ever vaccinated for kennel cough or had any problems with this kind of infection. The female subsequently had a couple more litters (one now) and there have been no more problems

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03-01-2014 04:37 PM

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WattsFlatsRedbo
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Corry,Pa
Posts: 801

Thank's for all the comments everyone.
I have allways vaccinated all my dogs for everything including Kennel Cough. Unfortunately CHV in a different type of animal. With my pups they all looked and acted great. None ever looked sickly or started losing weight. With my pups this litter it would just happen all of a sudden out of no wheres starting with one day the pup didn't and wouldn't drink formula and from that within 24hrs they would be having trouble breathing, convulsing, seizures and at the end start bleeding from the nose and mouth constantly crying in pain. Not a pleasant thing to witness. All these things are symptoms of CHV in pups under 3 weeks of age.
On the upside we have 3 pups that have made it and are doing well.

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03-02-2014 12:58 AM

umbie
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Registered: Dec 2010
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Posts: 677

thanks for posting this

So Sorry for your loss

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03-02-2014 01:50 PM