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Selfml
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Registered: Jul 2010
Location: Miami, Oklahoma
Posts: 164

How to score this tree

Dogs are treed on a tree with nothing in it. A limb plenty big enough for something to cross is running into another but in the other tree is an opposum. Just wondering how to score this tree

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03-09-2014 04:26 AM

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Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Slick. Luck of the draw. Can't scratch a NTCH for a possum if it ain't in the tree he's in. Possums ain't known for crossing out. Dogs were just smart enough to move over one tree and since it wasn't in the tree you would have to just minus the tree for being slick.

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03-09-2014 04:33 AM

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RAT Mafia
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03-09-2014 04:46 AM

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RAT Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Senatobia Mississippi
Posts: 384

Plus coon
Minus possum
Dang thats easy

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03-09-2014 04:48 AM

Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Rat, it's not in the tree they are treeing on. It is in another tree. Can't scratch a dog in another tree cause you would be claiming a possum "crossed out". If it's not a NtCh case it doesn't matter cause it's just minus either way.

The dogs won on this one if they were NtCh dogs. They likely treed the possum and moved over one tree to keep from getting some training but when the cast got there they would be minused for slick tree but would not be scratched for a possum if they were NtCh dogs.

Yes it is definitely a minus tree cause it is slick, just making sure nobody tries to scratch a NtCh because of a magical cross out possum.

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03-09-2014 04:56 AM

T Burton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2013
Location: Seminole,OK
Posts: 422

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Rat, it's not in the tree they are treeing on. It is in another tree. Can't scratch a dog in another tree cause you would be claiming a possum "crossed out". If it's not a NtCh case it doesn't matter cause it's just minus either way.

The dogs won on this one if they were NtCh dogs. They likely treed the possum and moved over one tree to keep from getting some training but when the cast got there they would be minused for slick tree but would not be scratched for a possum if they were NtCh dogs.

Yes it is definitely a minus tree cause it is slick, just making sure nobody tries to scratch a NtCh because of a magical cross out possum.

Would you plus it if there was a coon in the other tree ? Rip

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03-09-2014 05:13 AM

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Aaron R Gamble
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Purdy Mo
Posts: 75

Scratch them you wiuld plus it if it was a coon in the other tree so why wouldnt scratch them

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03-09-2014 05:36 AM

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Aaron R Gamble
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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Purdy Mo
Posts: 75

Read page 67 in the second edition of the advisor you'll figure out the answer

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03-09-2014 05:44 AM

Bill(Chew)
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3314

If you would plus a coon then you have to score the opposum

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03-09-2014 05:48 AM

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D. Davis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: west central Il.
Posts: 350

????

Don't have the new adviser yet.Seems like the honest thing to do is score or scratch.

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03-09-2014 07:04 AM

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BIG$BLUES
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
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03-09-2014 08:09 AM

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BIG$BLUES
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Do you circle a slick tree because it touches a circle tree?

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03-09-2014 08:11 AM

john Duemmer
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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

It should have been decided if the two trees were going to be scored as one before shine time started, If you would have scored a coon, you should score the possum.

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03-09-2014 01:51 PM

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Diggerman
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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: S.W. Wisc.
Posts: 734

It's the Zones, first cast, all four dogs are there. How WILL you score the tree?

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03-09-2014 02:04 PM

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by Diggerman
It's the Zones, first cast, all four dogs are there. How WILL you score the tree?

With a cast vote just like every tree must be scored.

This scenario is exactly why UKC. says the tree or trees that are going to be scored should be determined before shine time starts.

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03-09-2014 02:26 PM

Diggerman
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Posts: 734

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
With a cast vote just like every tree must be scored.

This scenario is exactly why UKC. says the tree or trees that are going to be scored should be determined before shine time starts.

John . I know what the rules say, let me ask it a different way, In this same scenario how many cast out of a hundred will scratch out?

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03-09-2014 03:06 PM

joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
It should have been decided if the two trees were going to be scored as one before shine time started, If you would have scored a coon, you should score the possum.

They would have only done that if another dog was on the tree with the possum in it. That wasn't the case in the original post. If it is obvious the trees touch then the judge can scratch the dogs.

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03-09-2014 05:20 PM

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Jack Bingham
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Minus open dogs all others are scratched.

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03-09-2014 09:26 PM

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john Duemmer
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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by joey
They would have only done that if another dog was on the tree with the possum in it. That wasn't the case in the original post. If it is obvious the trees touch then the judge can scratch the dogs.

Even when all the dogs are on one tree when i judge i always try to get a look at the tree and if there is a legitament crossout make it clear to the cast which tree or trees we are shineing before shine time starts.

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03-09-2014 09:41 PM

Dale Young
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 2573

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
With a cast vote just like every tree must be scored.

This scenario is exactly why UKC. says the tree or trees that are going to be scored should be determined before shine time starts.

How do you look at a tree and determine that before shine time starts.

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03-09-2014 10:54 PM

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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Even when all the dogs are on one tree when i judge i always try to get a look at the tree and if there is a legitament crossout make it clear to the cast which tree or trees we are shineing before shine time starts.

I've never nor have I ever seen a judge do that unless there was a question of another dog treeing beside the dog. In order to truly tell if a lot of these trees touch you would need to put a bright light in the tree and go all the way around it. I really wouldn't want you doing that on my tree. Not to mention the wasted time. If there is a dog split close enough to warrant looking to see if they touch then fine, but if not we can determine it during shine time. That being said its just my opinion, but one I think UKC would agree with.

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03-10-2014 03:35 AM

wakenda creek b
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

quote:
Originally posted by T Burton
Would you plus it if there was a coon in the other tree ? Rip

That's what I say. Minus it

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03-10-2014 03:52 AM

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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

It depends, you would have to see it. If was really the case of two trees being as one then yes you would scratch NtCh dogs for the possum in the other tree but that wasn't the way the question was presented.

It was presented as "one limb". Now on that if it is a coon you are gonna have to show me where the coon could have crossed plus show me the coon in the tree. No woulda coulda shoulda oh it could be in the pine business.

How many possums you ever seen cross out on one limb touching?

If it is scored as one tree as someone has already said then you would score the tree as an off game tree.

If it's not scored as one tree then it is just scored as a slick tree.

If I really truly thought the possum crossed out I would vote to scratch. If I thought the dogs treed the possum and got away with moving over one tree then I would vote slick cause that's just the way the rules are.

Heck I had one of my dogs minused once on a possum in a tree that didn't touch. I didn't mind cause he was a young dog and was in the correcting stage and I know for as sure a fact as I can that he treed the possum in the little shrub and moved one tree over which happened to be a big, leafy summer time circle tree. He told on his self cause he never would even look toward the possum, stayed on the oppsite side of the tree where he was at and acted all innocent. Those trees were not even close to touching and there was a 10 foot gap between them. No way those guys would have scored it plus if it was a coon but they voted to minus (mainly cause I was leading the cast and my dog was the only dog stupid enough to stay hooked the rest left LOL). I didn't mind cause it wasn't like he was getting shafted he did it I know he did but technically by the rules he shouldn't have been minused.

People just looking for a way to minus a dog is just as bad as people just looking for a way to plus a dog (spider eyes etc).

You gotta play it straight up. If a dog catches a break because of the way a rule is worded instead of making an excuse to minus him you gotta let him get that break whether you like it or not. Been plenty of times I know what really happened and what had to be put on the scorecard were different things.

Rules are rules whether we like them or not LOL.

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03-12-2014 03:25 AM

River Birch Run
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Registered: Jun 2007
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Posts: 1176

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
With a cast vote just like every tree must be scored.

This scenario is exactly why UKC. says the tree or trees that are going to be scored should be determined before shine time starts.

This is also why UKC refers to using common sense and giving the dog the benefit of the doubt. When all dogs are on the same tree you do no pick and choose which trees to shine be for shine time. Common sense possum do not cross out, dogs get benefit of the doubt.

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03-12-2014 02:03 PM

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rweller
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Registered: Feb 2005
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Posts: 1084

I'm with RIP on this one. I have been hunting a long time and you just don't see possums cross out like a coon will.

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03-12-2014 03:29 PM